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Two milestones in SHO history recently passed by. First Ford revealed their 2010 SHO and second a judge passed down a nonsensical ruling, in a series of several, that after seven years of delay effectively derailed our national class action lawsuit.
I asked folks not to discuss the ruling on the list, thank you for the cooperation. Suffice it to say we got robbed, again! Not out lawyered, our counsel did a good job. But once again a Chicago judge after years of inept screwing around “got all it wrong”; very wrong.
So what does this have to do with the Lorena Bobbitt? Every few years a mistreated woman gets tired of the abuse and takes things in to her own hands. If the woman gets a predominantly male jury they will often sympathetically acquit the abused woman.
But if abused woman has a predominantly female jury often the reasoning prevails that she had plenty of notice of the abusive behavior, and plenty of opportunities to leave, that violence was unwarranted, just leave the abusive party. The jury will often hand out a very harsh sentence to the woman.
I have no idea if the 2010 SHO will be a good car, or the correct car for the times. But I do know how Ford has treated us both before and during litigation. I’ll admit that I am personally hurt and surprised by the interest in the 2010 SHO by this group.
Those who choose to do business with Ford Motor Company ever again after the way we have been treated; I just don’t know what to say, except you knew what you were getting into, did not have the sense to leave, and lack the self respect not to return to an abuser.
Tim this is America, and it is your given right to spend your dollars where you want.
If you have sworn off Ford I certainly hope you can find a domestic automaker to support with your dollars.
Domestic, as in Subaru, Honda or Toyota?
My dad did not like it when I purchased my Toyota truck, and I can not blame him.
He has his his Iwo Jima scars and I guess I have mine,
The next few years will be interesting. I am a simple guy, autistic, I don't have a lot of latitude. I am predisposed to follow my conscience.
It was just a matter of time........
Being so involved in all of this, I can understand how you feel so strongly about it.
I both applaud your being a reasonably indignant consumer as well as wonder why you can't understand other people letting it go.
I believe that I was possibly the only person to have canceled a credit card back when they started sending out those notices ( in the early 90's??? ) that part of the agreement was that you could no longer sue them, and had to resolve any differences differences through one of the two arbitration companies that they had selected. Most people just kept on using them. Most people just go along with whatever the credit card companies send out...
In Larry's response to one of the other threads, he mentioned that all of the engineers made sure to let him know that they "got it" about doing everything right.
My main problem with the cam issue was not that an engineering mistake was made, it was that Ford chose to handle it the way they did.
It was Pinto all over again, just on a different level.
In the cam ordeal, no one was burned to death, but many people did lose their car and then credit and probably marriage over it.
I believe you bought your SHO after the Pinto ordeal, Tim, and I believe you are old enough to remember news coverage of the cars in flames and people having been burned alive inside, as well as pictures of plaintiffs that had barely survived and been severely disfigured.
Was that not battering enough for you then? Why would you buy your SHO from such a company?
Different people will go through the same circumstance and come out with a different perception. The lemmings that agree to whatever a credit card company decides to charge and require make it impossible for anyone to get a reasonable deal with a credit card company.
People aren't going to be much different over a car...
A rational and thoughtful response. Thank you.
Why did I buy my SHO? I do have a desire to see American companies thrive. My experiences with FMC when I worked at the UNM in the early 1980's were all very positive.
I believed the PR about quality being Job #1, and I was greatly impressed by the loyalty and fanaticism of SHO owners on SHO Times.
I concluded that Ford had changed. I was willing to give them another chance at that time. I STILL love the car.
I also respect the freedom other people have to buy as they will. Their money and their choice.
But I have to vent. And my world view, simple as it is "needs justice" for the parts to fit.
Sometimes folks remarry someone they divorced and it works out, sometimes not.
I'd rather not try.
I am an engineer, I respect and identify with the Ford engineers. I understand how engineers are human and can make mistakes. They may be the only employees I'd keep if I ran FMC.
A few years back the topic came up, why not negotiate with Ford? Cut a deal for your self, screw all the others who had a cam failure? I said because I have a fiduciary responsibility to the others, my losses for just a cam weld are minor next to those who rebuilt the engine 2-3 times.
I don't expect to change anyone else's behavior, but I needed to go on record.
Tim, Larry, and all who spearheaded the lawsuit project I appreciate all the energy you put into doing the right thing. thank you.
I made the comment many years ago when this started about car mfrs. No matter what the situation is with their cars, they all get good legal representation.
Once litigation starts, you aren't dealing with the auto company, you are dealing with the legal community bunch, including judges and lawyers. They been down this road before, and they know how to take care of business.
It's been hashed and rehashed before, but we never would have known if Ford would have made good on it or not. Jumping into the litigation ended any possible company solution. Through Uncle Lar I know why it was started when it was, but that's the chance you take.
First I agree that amicable cooperation stops when litigation starts, but let me emphasize that in this case Ford quit cutting owners any rhythm when we started collecting cam failure cases.
Ford quit covering cars still under warranty on the basis of "neglect and abuse". And I sure as hell don't regret collecting 1032 cases.
Early on Ford was telling folks that their case was "absolutely unique" and therefore MUST be the result of "abuse and neglect". Then came the "we may have made 13 defective cam lie."
We now know what Ford knew then, that all the cams were of feeble design and that Ford had had major unresolved issued that they assumed were taken care of but were not not, because they neglected to run the Cologne engine durability tests.
Years after the TREAD act was passed Ford still does not comply and still cheats under the rules of discovery. Typical Chicago politics. No one here is accountable for the judges bad decisions or our legal system.
My only argument is that if you stay where you have been raped up the butt several times, and don't leave, and then pay $40,000 to do it all again; don't be surprised what happens.
I believe that the value of the good-will created by making things right when something is built wrong still eludes Ford.
I do not personally think that they have gotten that point, and certainly not embraced it as a corporation.
Toyota struggled against it in the sludged engines but finally came around. Maybe they wouldn't have if it had only affected 20,000 vehicles???
I have paid to have my cams welded in the SHO and to use oil treatments in the Sienna. 200,000 miles divided by 3,000 is 66. the oil treatment is about 17 per quart, and I use a third of a quart per change, plus about four additional quarts and three quicker than usual oil changes and I come into the same ballpark as the camweld cost.
Add in the labor I spent helping a friend diagnose his sludge and I have probably spent about the same on the sludged engine as the cam weld.
I would still buy either a Toyota or a Ford, but the Toyota I can buy without the same concerns, even though I view them both to have about the same likelihood of some "glass jaw" popping up.
I would prefer to buy American at any time, all other things being equal.
Ford has sold off part if not all of that advantage with the way they treat people who have problems that they know about.
They have made their decision, and when I decide to buy, I will make mine. I can't be exactly sure how that will come out until I make the decision.
Something will be bought in the next year.
> I’ll admit that I am personally hurt and surprised by the interest in the 2010 SHO by this group.
Tim, We have known each other for ~8 years and worked closely together all that time. However, I will suggest that this particular statement is out of lline, IMHO.
We embarked a nameplate that got it terribly wrong on 1 of three attempts. Now comes the fourth attempt and it's a car, that for most of us, is worth giving them another chance. They reached out to us for our input last year and we gave it to them. By in large it clearly appears they listened.
I filed the suit and repeatedly reminded folks that once filed it's out of our control. It gains a life of it's own. We caused Ford to spend in the Millions in defense of our claim. We rebuffed their every attempt to dismiss - we called them out when we caught them flatly being dishonest. We did everything we could do to win this action.
It most always comes down to the judge picking fly shit outta pepper and that is certainly what was done.
The fact that we are anxious to see this car succeed is no reflection by any member of this list, AFAIK, to "dissing" you. Therefore you have absolutely no reason, in my view, to feel that way.
While for the most part the community is not as familiar with the tremendous energy you invested in the suit, I continually attempted to keep you grounded. Your repeated assaults on Ford over the years could have been harmful.
Those of us that have fought the good fight also learn when to call it a day. We then pick up the pieces and move on. I'm found of an old pilots saying "there are no rearview mirrors on jets"
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your hard work and energy. ECL will figure out if we continue in the new venue. You as well as the rest of us have to move on.
And bear in mind, I said this last week, these are not the same engineers that screwed up the GIII. These are all young energetic people who seem to really have themselves vested in the platform. That's a good thing.
I will say this, the Gen 3 is not a bad car, it just had one serious but repairable flaw. Each of us grieve the passing of each V8SHO, look how we grieved for SHOWHAT9?
As much as I love the car, the main attraction has been the SHO community from the beginning. Even defending the V8 to the V6 group were good days on SHO Times.
I think what Ford really needs now is what it squandered, a fiercely loyal and fanatical performance sedan group.
If it still values its customers, they know where to find us. Some meaningful gesture would be appropriate. I don't think we should "sell" our heart cheaply.
My hurt, is like that of a parent. I have a friend whose daughters is hanging out on the streets with no-good dopers. They are very hurt. Until I see evidence otherwise, I would still categorize FMC management ethically with the same.
And I'd tell my daughter to guard her heart.
My previous father in law fought the Japanese and he would not own or condone one of his children owning a Japanese vehicle.
In my life I have owned a lot of cars, just over 20 I would guess. I have owned ONE Japanese car, and 2 German cars. The rest have been American. I will continue to buy American as long as reasonable American vehicles are available.
Subaru, Honda, Toyota, Nissan are all JAPANESE vehicles, I don't care where they put the tires on them. The profit goes to Japan, the executives are Japanese, the engineers are Japanese. Someday they will take the money that you send to them, they will buy up whatever part of our country they can buy and they will do things with it that we don't like.
I can understand the animosity towards Ford because of the way they have treated SHO owners, but I would rather buy a car from them than from a foreign company.
It's not like Ford has any vehicles I want to buy though. The new SHO will apparently be priced beyond my means. I might be too old for a Mustang, I wonder if I could get my wife to drive an Edge.
Well put, Larry. Bravo.
I fully understand Tim’s feelings on this. I showed my feelings when I bought an Acura to replace the V8 SHO. But many are loyal to Ford for several reasons. I was born into a Ford family. At last count, I’ve owned 29 Fords, 20 of them new since 1972. Of those 29 cars, only three had a serious problem—the three Gen III SHO’s I owned. And I wasn’t a victim of cam failure. Do I allow them one mistake? I think yes. When Ford was offering junk for performance minded people, I looked elsewhere, but today’s Ford is offering things I want and doing it the right way. I’ll forgive, but not forget.
Wednesday, I calculated when the lease on my 07 Edge (which has been a wonderful vehicle in so many ways) was up and found out it is April 15th. I can extend my lease, but decided I had to get a new leased vehicle before the new SHO hits the showrooms. And I didn’t like the $37K price (for starters) on a Ford. So I ordered a new 2010 Ford Fusion Sport. It will be my first new ford automobile since the 1997 SHO. When the lease is up, I should be looking for a third vehicle again and there should be a few 2010 SHO’s out there cheap. We’ll see. The new car is silver (couldn’t take the bright red, neon blue, and back choices) and with a power to weight ratio better than any SHO I ever owned, I should be happy for a couple of years. AWD, too.
The SHO was so important to me because it was perfect. Enthusiast driving in a package my wife could drive to the supermarket. No flashy stripes or screaming eagles, and it was nice to know that no one knew what it could do. I hope the new SHO is all that and more. The Fusion Sport seems to have the same formula, as you can see by the picture. And I take solace in the fact that it looks like Ford won’t have to borrow money from the government to survive or file bankruptcy. And if I get it up the keister, then I have no one else to blame but myself. I’d say 30 cars and only one model with serious problems (which I didn’t have to deal with) is a pretty good record.
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