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Ebay Suspected Cam Failure #898
Date 11/16/08
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Title: |
1997 Ford Taurus SHO - 82k miles - straight
and clean |
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Mileage: |
82,028 miles |
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Location: |
Kalamazoo, MI |
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Vehicle Information
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VIN: |
1FALP54N1VA132834
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Inspection: |
Order an independent inspection |
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Warranty: |
Vehicle does NOT have an existing warranty |
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Vehicle title: |
Clear |
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Condition: |
Used |
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For sale by: |
Private seller |
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Features
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Body type: |
Sedan |
Engine: |
8 Cylinder |
Exterior color: |
Black |
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Transmission: |
Automatic |
Fuel type: |
Gasoline |
Interior color: |
Gray |
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Drivetrain: |
-- |
Disability equipped: |
No |
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Standard Equipment
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AM/FM Radio |
Cruise Control |
Cassette |
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Power Steering |
Power Windows |
Power Door Locks |
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Air Conditioning |
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Optional Equipment
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Leather |
CD Changer |
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THIS IS A RELISTING OF
MY LISTING FROM YESTERDAY. A SCAMMER USED THE
BUY IT NOW BUTTON. YOU KNOW THE KIND -- THEY'RE
OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WILL SEND YOU AN ECHECK AND
HAVE THEIR SHIPPER PICK IT UP.
Check my feedback on other vehicles I've sold
here.
I consider this '97 Taurus SHO a PROJECT. I
purchased it to restore and have since hurt my
shoulder and am unable to work on it.
Even though I consider it a project, it ain't much
of one. The only problem with it is that it
doesn't run right. It runs, but it acts like it
has a really bad vacuum leak. That don't mean it
is a vacuum leak. It just means it may be.
Worse case
scenario is that it could be caused by bad cam
shafts. I've heard these V8s have a problem
when it comes to their camshafts. So, best case
scenario is that you find a vacuum leak -- worst
case is that it needs camshafts. Either way,
someone will get a great deal for this solid car.
There is no rust. And the interior's in good
condition. After all, there are only 82k miles on
it. There is one small rip on the driver's seat.
See the photo bucket link below where I tried to
get a good shot of it.
This car does run and drive.
Here's the KBB assessment of this vehicle
here
This car has too many features to list. Just use
the KBB link to get an idea. I'll add that it has
real nice Goodyear Eagle tires.
Those of you that know SHOs, know this car is
worth it.
More pictures available
here.
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00212
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Shipping, payment details, and return policy
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Pickup & Shipping
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Seller's payment instructions
See Item Description for details.
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Deposit via PayPal
US $200.00 within 48 hours of
auction close.
This seller, mad_buy, prefers PayPal.
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Cashier's Check (certified from
US or Canadian bank) or money
order |
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Cash (in person) |
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Full payment
Required within 7 days of auction close.
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11/16/08-11/17/08
Most likely NOT a cam failure.....listing says it runs and drives, a failure
might run, but usually not good enough to even think about driving.
I bought a '97 a couple of years ago that barely ran but it could be driven
if you played with the gas enough..... it needed an IAC and 2 coils.
Rick Glass
+1. Doesn't smell like a camfailure, I think the seller's just clueless
about the camfail symptoms and is going for full disclosure in the ad.
Regards,
Jon Heese
After some other possibilities have popped up here is some further on the
car.
I believe I looked at this car 2 weeks ago when it was listed on craigslist
closer to me, same description 97, 82k same after market exhaust. I forgot to
send it to the list then. When I listened to it run, it had a sound as if you
were running a car with no spark plugs in a cylinder. (I say this because it
sounded like air being forced backinto the intake manifold while it was
running) It did run and there was barely enough power to move it at parking lot
speeds. I admit I have never heard a camfailed car run, so I am turning to those
with more expertise. Based on the best description I can give in writing, what
do you think?
The owner said that the car had been sitting since April and it had a dead
battery. We had to jump it to get it started. After the car ran for about 15
minutes it died on its own and would not restart. It never threw any codes
either.
Mike V
I have had a near death experience with my SHO's motor, when your hear a
"ticking" noise it isn't the injectors and over time it gets louder and louder
SHOcrazy!!!!
Did it by chance get hot during this 15 minutes?
If a front bank cam fails there is no water pump. But a close observation
underhood can see that the water pump belt isn't moving....
Would the car idle sitting on its own?
The description I have heard of cam failed cars is that to keep them running it
requires constant pressure on the throttle. Never throwing codes seems pretty
odd unless the SES light was burnt out...
Scott K
The car did not get hot. The sound was most noticeable near the firewall. SES
light was not burned out. It would idle on its own but just barely. It also had
new spark plugs installed. - Mike V
Hmmm... That's an odd one.
I wonder where he got the vacuum leak idea though... If it were a vacuum leak
it would have a runaway idle, not run rough and backfire...
Right?
Regards,
Jon Heese
A cam failure should not idle at all....and would most definitely throw
codes. One of the cam failures I bought did run once, very briefly and then
would not start again, and it made ALOT of noise.
Vacuum leaks can make cars do crazy things, sometimes runaway idle, sometimes
no power, sometimes both......
We all know these cars are notorious for having issues that aren't always cut
and dry as to what or why....
I still wouldn't consider it a failure without absolute confirmation.
Rick
Yeah, I agree totally.
Of course, it could also be a third option, totally distinct from a cam
failure and a vacuum leak. Nothing springs to mind given the symptoms, but
neither of those two seem to fit all that well to me, so I'm not sure why the
seller would give those two theories, except for just a general lack of
troubleshooting experience with the car.
i.e. He pulled them out of his butt. :)
Regards, Jon Heese
Definite cam failure on rear bank. It will run if you throttle the pedal
enough, but it wont idle on it's own. A vacuum leak that large to cause an
engine to stall would be an easy find. Like pulling the brake booster hose off
the intake. It's not a vacuum leak. The car wont get hot in the cooling system,
but the rear cat will turn beat red due to the raw fuel being dumped in the
exhaust stream. Its backfiring thru the intake valve into the surge tank that's
why it sounds near the firewall. The valve's are bent just enough to keep the
valve in a stuck open position, but not enough to consistently clap the piston,
although the imprint will for sure be in the piston top. I've had 5 of these so
far with the rear bank. The front's do appear to be more common in the failure
dept but I guess it depends on how many you do. It's still a 50/50 shot and in a
few cases, both, but not as common.
A way to verify, although I don't recommend it, unless you have had some
experience with it b4, is to take off the intake hose to the tank, Give a VERY
SMALL shot of starting fluid down the throat and kick it over. If you get the
flame thrower shot out the intake, you just verified a bent intake valve and
probably all 4, due to the cam failure. If no flame but still a pop, you just
verified the exhaust vale bent, again all 4, same issue. It pops out the exhaust
side but there is no compression, just the starting fluid exploding in the
cylinder after the coil fire's.
John Friegel
Ah, but Mike Veldkamp (who actually saw the car run in person) said this
elsewhere in this thread:
"It would idle on its own but just barely."
Also: "After the car ran for about 15 minutes it died on its own and would
not restart.
So it sounds like it didn't need constant throttle to run. I'm not sure how
likely it is that it is a cam failure if it still idles (even if roughly)...
Regards, Jon Heese
Yes, but he also stated "When I listened to it run, it had a sound as if you
were running a car with no spark plugs in a cylinder.(I say this because it
sounded like air being forced back into the intake manifold while it was
running)"
This is due to the bent valve's, but I wont rule out the scenario of 1 valve
drop due to a failed valve lock. Which still bends the valve. But I've seen that
too. Its not pretty. Usually damages the head beyond repair and the cylinder
walls don't get a good prognosis either. Leaves the piston top hammered with
lots of pock marks and sometimes pieces of the valve, head or lock, or all of
the above.
John Friegel
I discovered that a failure on the front head would generally allow it to
sort-of idle but not accelerate as opposed to the rear where it required a lot
of throttle coaxing to keep it running.
Carter Fuji
Oh yeah, I agree 100%. My direct experience with cam failures is a big fat
zero, so I will defer to the "experts" on this one.
This is just the first time I've heard of a cam failure that will stay
running on it's own, but I would never say "impossible".
And as Carter pointed out just now elsewhere in this thread, I stand
corrected. Based on that, it definitely sounds like a front cam failure.
The only pieces of the puzzle that still don't fit are the lack of SES light
and the lack of overheating due to WP drive failure though...
Regards, Jon Heese
"it had a sound as if you were running a car with no spark plugs in a
cylinder"..... as in 1 not a whole bank.
So maybe it blew a plug out..... he did say it had new plugs, so one probably
striped, blew out, is sucking air, car won't run right, blah blah blah.
There are too many possible scenarios with this car based on the information
we have been given.
At this point IT IS NOT A CONFIRMED FAILURE, until it is taken apart and
officially confirmed by a spinning sprocket.
Rick Glass
The other thing is - and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet - anyone
who thinks that it's a good idea to try and start this car again should be
flogged with a timing chain.
If it IS a failure, it'll only make it worse. If it's not, it could become
one the next time it's turned over.
Either way, the engine is unhealthy and the battery should be pulled before
the owner or a potential buyer does any more serious damage to it.
-John Breen III
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