Does The GIII Have Soul??

New 11/18/2004, updated as received

Interesting comment made on shotimes yesterday with regard to P-Fish selling his GIII. A couple of folk over there believe only the GI/II have any "soul".
That's a fairly large brush to work with however, I was curious what the list thinks in terms of the GIII having "soul"
Bombard me!!
Rules - This is definitely on topic - however it's is also definitely an opinion question. There are no right answers and no wrong answers, only how one individual feels about his/her car.
Keep that in mind.
Whatcha got???
Larry E
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Sure it does. Most of the folks who feel that the Gen 3 is without 'soul'
are the ones who have had a V6 car for years; many since new. Even though
there are some similar characteristics between the V6 and V8 SHO's, there
are even more differences. To a person who has owned a V6 car for 5-10
years, the Gen 3 is going to be a 'shock' if they think it's going to be a
similar experience. That is what usually leads to the 'it has no soul', or
'it doesn't grab me'. Also, don't forget that when the V6 SHO was
introduced, it was a bona-fide hot rod! There wasn't anything domestically
that could compare with it. The car was cutting edge performance-wise. The
Gen 3 however, is squarely in the middle of the pack at best, and more
likely towards the bottom performance-wise. The rest of the domestic
competitors caught up with the SHO and surpassed it (hell, to this day a V6
SHO with a stick will outrun a V8 - if they can't even better their own
product, what does this say about its prospects of getting ahead of the
others?), and this isn't even touching on products from Nissan and other
imports. This also colors folks opinion of the Gen 3.

My first SHO was a 97. So for me the Gen 3 has a 'special' place in so far
as it was the car that got me into the SHO community. For someone who bought
an 89 new, the Gen 3 will be 'wanting'. It doesn't have a stick first and
foremost. And due to the car being built 'better', it almost feels isolated
from the road compared to the older cars, despite having superior handling
capabilities out of the box. But for me, the Gen 3 was my first SHO. It's a
Taurus with a V8! While it's no 540i, it runs quite well nonetheless! When I
bought my 97, it was simply the finest car I had ever owned up to that
point. And frankly, I haven't had anything since that beats it for it's
refinements, fit and finish and overall uniqueness. So if I were asked "Does
your 99 have soul", I'd answer with a yes sir, it does!
Dave Garber
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My ex-wife's '86 Honda Accord had no soul. Perfect car for her though.

Put key in hole, turn right until start.
Fill with gas on a monthly basis.
Change oil sometime.

Friggin' car is the Energizer Bunny, but absolutely the most boring car to drive. I couldn't stand it because it was so un-exciting.

My '89 has a soul and lots of it (400hp worth of soul).

I think that my '96 has soul. Granted, it's different, but it's still there.

With the '89, you know at all times how much soul the car has. It's blatantly apparent even as you drive in a straight line. It's just raring' to go. I'd have to say that the '96 is a bit different in the fact that it's not as extroverted. In a straight line or easy driving, it's smooth and refined. But when you crowd it or push it, the soul does come out to play.

If the '89 is a 45 caliber Colt Auto, then the Gen III is a 40 cal S&W, but in a velvet holster.
Just my impressions.
Doug Lewis
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I am lucky enough to have one of every generation. I currently have a 1990,
1993 ( Both MTX ) and my 98. I do not drive the Gen 3 in less than perfect
conditions, which left me driving her approx 500 miles last year. But it is
by far, my favorite of the three. If I had to eliminate two, I would keep
the 98. It is surely not the fastest, but just looks the best IMHO. In
fact, I also own a rival to the SHO, a Maxima. And that to me, has no soul.
My Gen 3 has the most soul of any car that I have ever owned. It is a
different soul than the Gen 1 and 2. But to me, the most rewarding.
Mike Yeager
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Since I started it, I'll pitch in.

It is difficult to explain but basically it comes down to this.

With my '93:

1. Whenever I felt bad/depressed/lonely, I could drive her and when the
secondaries opened, the sound and the rush made me feel better.
2. When the car didn't work, which was often, I felt bad, not mad at
the car, but the feeling of sympathy you have when your spouse is under the
weather.

I can only relate it to being in love with my wife. My '93 was right up
there.

With my '99:

1. Too quiet.
2. Too slow (butt dyno). Didn't feel like it was going. Obviously it
does go, as I and others have shown, but it just didn't 'feel' good.
3. When it broke, I was just pissed at it.

Notice, the '99 was and it, the '93 was a person.

I know, I need some therapy......

Paul L Fisher
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My 1991 white SHO was a rip-roaring, snorting bunch of fun. It was also
creaky, leaky and a maintenance nightmare. Some people say that for a car
to have soul you have to be 'invested' in it. Well I invested a lot of
money in it. Sub frame repair, AC rebuild, new PCM. Still I loved that
thing. Ended up driving it to and from Miami without a throwout bearing,
then to Oklahoma City to get my Gen III.
The 1998 was fast, smooth and non-creaky. The sunroof didn't howl and
clatter. True, it didn't have that snorting eagerness that the '91 did but
as I got a little older I could appreciate the added comfort of the car.
Drilling the airbox and adding a Borla cat-back added to the visceral fun of
the car, even if it didn't make it any faster. One of the saddest days of
my life was when it ended up on its lid in a soybean field due to an idiot
bicycle rider.

They both had souls, but very different. The '91 was like Clint Eastwood in
his early days. Rough and ready. The '98 was like Roger Moore. Suave,
comfortable, but effective.

David
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Not having owned a Gen I/II 2 car I can not compare directly, being in,
working on those cars I would say it is just different.

Being connected in the Auto industry here I get to drive all the stuff I can
or want to with out question. I take the SHO with me. Cosmetically she is
getting long in the tooth and hope to fix that in the spring. But you know I
just get into her for that drive home and think why would I want to get rid
of this car. Nothing has her personality. Sure I can get spanked buy tons of
newer cars but it is jus that overall balance. I forget how big and heavy
see is darting through rush hour traffic or on some of the local twisted
roads.. {we have some good ones due to the river valley and Glacier ridge}
Then that long haul trip to Spencer and back I was not beat up after doing
1153 miles in 23 hours with the stops, had 4 hours sleep and carried out a
normal Sunday of activity at home. She still gets comments and looks. People
ask me about buying one and I ask what do they want it for. to win races but
an MTX {I would like one after driving this one and loving it} you want
balance and an very very good overall package in speed, handling, and
comfort buy one of these. I always was impressed with her after getting out
of my Bosses BMW's over the years I have had it, and My boss to this day
owning the big 7series BMW still is impressed buy a Ford Product when we
take it for meetings, {we rotate here for tax purposes..}. Friends of mine
who are stereo nuts, { I am nut I like music but get lost in all the techiie
stuff}, always comment on how clean the JBL system is and they sit there
with their eyes closed and these guys have $1000's in car stereos and even
more in more systems.

Neighbours love it and actually do not mind me leaving the corner by our
street, {I never lay rubber or exceed the speed limit but get there quick}.
It is how I have met most of them since we moved in as they come over to see
why a Taurus has a rumble, some know what it is some have no idea. It will
be a car as long as I can buy parts for it I will keep. I had people wanting
to buy it at the invite only Ford Party I went, {being cleaned and off light
helped}, but they were Ford people who know the car and once I told them
mine was welded well they had no issues. Told the Used car Manager of the
dealership give me a new Mustang and I will leave the keys, HE thought I was
joking until HE looked me straight in the face. I have photos of it and
group meets blown up and hanging in my office some of the ads for pushing it
when the 96MY cars came out. It does have soul, and it is a healthy one.

Clare
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Saying as I am probably the newest owner here I'll chime in.
I first became attracted the the SHO thru the Gen II. I stumbled on the SHO
Club site and learned more about the Gen III. I hated it at first. But then
over time I became a softy and now I have one. I have never driven a Gen
I/II SHO but have owned SLO's of both. Not saying they are the same, but.. I
think what shies one away from the Gen III is it's problems. But what car
doesn't have problems?
Does it have soul? I love firing it up in the lots at the store and getting
the heads to turn when they hear the V8 growling. Step on the gas and it
responds rather well. To me it is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Even more than
the GEN II. Why, the Gen II blended with the other cars, same lines and
such. Then Fud designs this Ford-val shape - WTHell is that!!! I think
people got sick of seeing the SLO in fleets and never bothered to get to
know the SHO. Thus it fades and dies. It has soul. It manifests itself in
the way we baby our cars, how we argue about what you can do with them, how
we buy a POS in hopes of rebuilding it into a driver, how we drive across
the country to own one.
It has "SHOul". But the question is, ARE YOU LISTENING?
Time for coffee....
Dave Manke
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I just knew I would never sell my '94 ATX, I loved it so much I couldn't
imagine ever enjoying any other car near as much, especially after having it
for almost 6 years. Then I decided it was time for a 2nd SHO, that's when I
bought the '93 MTX. Same thing, I just knew I would never part with either
of them. Then I sat passenger in a '99.....I had to have one, I had never
even driven a Gen III, but I knew I had to have one. I found the '99 on
Autotrader and 2 days later I flew to Houston, TX with a check in hand, did
I mention I had always had a fear of flying, but the SHO seemed like reason
enough to try it.

I bought the '99 on August 1st 2003......less than 2 months later I had sold
both the '94 and the '93, they just didn't compare to the '99....I did spend
a few weeks trying to drive them, and just couldn't seem to want to....must
be the "soul" of the Gen III.
Rick Glass
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The SHO is like a male child, the younger ones (Gen 1) are more raw power, a little ruff around the edges, learn to drive a stick or go away type vehicle (Lot of Soul). Gen 2 they softened a little, sold out a little, added a slush box. (Soul is still there, but society told us to soften the edges) Gen 3, there is a soul there, but it has been beaten and battered by all the corporate BS of profit and loss and its really questionable if the bloodlines are pure, or is it actually some "Bastardized wanna bee" trading on its fathers name. I loved my Gen 3, its gone do I miss it , yeah, but I think it will be a lot greater loss of my soul, when I finally have to put the Gen 1 out to pasture. This is just my opinion, not trying to cause controversy, just doing what Larry asked, but for us that have owned the different Gens, look at the trend, Kirk is back to a Gen 1, I am guessing Don prefers the 89 over the gen 3, Fisher has made his feelings known.

John Stout
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I have never known any production car to have soul. Soul is in the meticulously restored historic autos, very limited production vehicles, and customized cars and trucks. However, my SHO makes MY soul come alive. While it is no turn-key racecar, it just feels more like an extension of my body than the lesser Gens (1 & 2). Gen 1/2 is a brute. While I won't undercut the V6 SHO's ability to hug the curves and handle remarkably well, it still seems like more of an assemblage of parts, rather than a seamless unitized product, like the Gen 3. This contrast is evident in the body styling, suspension/chassis mechanics, and especially in the way the driver feels while in the cockpit. The Gen 3 is molded around the driver. The Gen 1/2 is built to performance parameters, with comfort and aesthetics as an afterthought. The V6 SHO is a tool. The V8 SHO is art.

Gen 1&2 - A poor man's performance vehicle, with some comfort features slapped on.
Gen 3 - A poor man's luxury vehicle, with mediocre (but adequate) straight-line performance.

In ALL generations of the SHO, Ford did a remarkable job in bringing as much of that M3/AMG element into the Taurus as they could, while still meeting their price point. While there are obvious shortfalls from the BMW/MB levels of refinement, reliability, performance, and/or luxury, the SHO is outstanding in value and in it's balance of those four traits. If the SHO cost $50K (or even $40K) brand new, I would consider it a failure and a truly inferior product compared to those others. But at it's price point, the SHO is top of the heap--even with all the nagging maintenance issues.
Dan Carman
'97 PG
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The "SOUL" question has been debated many times, but I think
it boils down to this:

If ANY vehicle makes you feel good, makes you smile, you
enjoy driving it and it meets your expectations, however
high or low, then it has "soul" to you.

I have 2 Gen 1's and a '96 V8. My '89 connected with me
from the first 10 feet of a test drive in 1991 (it was a
45,000 mile used car).

My '96 performed well for me when I bought it. I bought it
so I could see what all the fuss was about after taking on
the responsibility of running the SHO Club in 2000. I knew
I had to try to figure out why people liked this car that in
my mind had been the downfall of my beloved V6 SHO
production. The first long trip I took in my '96 I fell in
love with it. That was about 60,000 miles ago, and I still
love driving my V8 SHO. I also love the V6 cars I have
(added a Mocha '91 because I love that color).

Some people don't think BMW's have soul, some don't think
Cobra's have soul. If that is what THEY think, then for
them it is true.

Certainly many people would argue with the typical SHO
enthusiast that no FWD fouir-door sedan could have soul, but
the car is a competent driver, with more than average power
and great handling. Build quality is pretty high too, for a
mass produced car.

I happen to think that all the Nissan hot sedans, Maxima,
Altima etc are lacking soul. they don't connect with me,
even if they handle well and have lots of power (which they do).

So if YOU think your SHO has soul, then nobody can argue
different. If someone else thinks their SHO is lacking
soul, then for them, it must be true.

The fact that we have a viable and active enthusiast
community having to do with the SHO of all years, is an
indicator that the car has something special that continues
to bring new people in, and make current owners happy. THAT
is a real indicator that the car is special. If not unique,
or at the top of the heap, it has earned a spot in the
automotive universe that not many models achieve. Maybe not
cult status, but enthusiast status.

Don Mallinson
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Does a Gen III SHO have soul?
Not very much, if a soul is defined as irascible bad habits that eventually annoy you to death or egg a driver toward imprudent actions. I once worked as an assistant. My boss told me on my first day that my job was not to draw attention to myself but to make him look at his best at all times. I was to be energetic, have fanatical attention to detail, be 100% prepared and competent and let him get all the credit.

That is what a Gen III SHO does best. I had a lovable dog that was mentally retarded. I loved that dog not less but more because even impaired it was great with kids and always and unconditionally gave 100% love. That dog had soul. Some folks love their car or bike for the same reasons, because of its mechanical foibles. But the same lovable traits that are entertaining in a short commute are grating during a long haul. Who would rather drive a Gen I-II than a Gen III in a spirited cross country trip?

Except for a manageable appetite for cams and transmissions (owner’s point of view) the Gen III is without significant vices from a driver’s point of view. I recently followed a white Dodge Stealth with 14” tall white lettering S T E A L T H on the rear window. How ironic? The Gen III is the perfect under-the-radar executive express unless the owner does a “Pimp my Ride” treatment. Its focus is making its’ owner look good not drawing attention to itself. It is the embodiment of perfect poise, subtlety and competence in motion.

A number of times I stopped for gas n’ grub reason only to have someone walk up telling they could not keep up through the corners or mountains; and hell I never noticed them, I wasn’t even in a hurry. Those cars with a soul can be well off the pace of a Gen III SHO that isn’t even trying.

The Gen III SHO is like a magic tennis racket or gulf club that enables a ham fisted slob like me perform like Tiger Woods, all without attracting attention to it self. It is a perfect tool.

Lesser cars, those “with a soul” can be like the cross-town vixen, which you would love to date but could never take home to family & friends. They are fun to test drive but imposable to live with for their bad habits over the years. ( not that I have any experience in this area)

Buford T Justice
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I think so. I've had all 3 Gens, having purchased an 89 in 89 after reading
all the reviews in the car mags leading up to it's release. It was the
'cowboy' of the bunch, with a slightly lighter body, rev-happy engine, and
generally a more intense demeanor. Ford steadily 'refined' the SHO, and in
so doing took away some of that character, but I don't think it was losing
its soul.

The Gen 2's finally had a better clutch and not as rev-happy engine because
of the heavier flywheel, but certainly way more character than some of the
other cars on the market. The 92 we still have displays that character even
after 175k miles, and on some days more than others. Later, I bought a 94
ATX with a bad transmission and during a conversation with Doug Lewis, he
convinced me that the ATX cars could be as entertaining as the MTX cars, so
bought one of his tranny's for it. I was not and still am not disappointed
with it, although the VAPS steering again refined the car but took away more
of that 'cowboy' character.

I really wasn't all that enthralled with the Gen 3's when they came out,
mostly because of Ford's over-the-top use of the oval styling, but what sold
me on one was after hearing Kirk's car's V-8 thunder underneath me as I
watched (and heard) from the observation platform at the Blackhawk Farms
track day during the 03 convention. Now I have 2 98's, and there is nothing
that replaces the throaty growl as they accelerate thru the gears. Maybe my
fondness for the V-8 comes from growing up with all the late 60's Mustangs,
Chevelles and Roadrunners, but there's just something about the V-8 sound
that does it for me. Yes, the Gen 3's are more refined, but certainly not
soulless in my view. The brake and handle well, have great amenities, and
when maintained, treat you very well.

If they just would have had a manual!

Greg Jones
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My '96 and '98 had as much soul as my '89. The MTX was more edgy than
the ATXs - more raw and unrefined, but also more exciting. Very high
speed in stock form on the '89 was a little too exciting - scarry
without upgrades to the suspension and brakes. There is a reason they
put Gen III brakes on the Gen I and II's. But the '89 *was* more
exciting to drive.

The V8's are far more refined, stable and solid - less on the edge.
The v8 sounds a lot better though - especially opened up. Any V8
sounds good to me, but something about the SHO v8's has always been
melodious.

Unfortunately, Ford's design target for the v8 SHO was the v6 ATX.
They beat that target, but did not match the raw acceleration of the
MTX.

Jim

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11/24/2004

First off, not sure I would classify Whoosh as having soul, but she certainly does have character. When I am driving something else for an extended period of time, I always ask myself if I really need her. But then after just starting her up, hearing the unique little V8 rumble, the whine of the blower, the tingle in the pedal. Once I start moving all doubts of should I own this car are dispelled and are confirmed when I come to a light and see the curious looks thrown my direction. Oddly enough, the most freaquently asked question isn't anything to do with the blower, but rather "who put the V8 in that Taurus.

Of course the best part comes on a nice "enthusiastic" cruise through the Ozarks. Nope, doesn't handle like a Porsche or even a Beemer, but then what would be the monthly average cost for the insurance payments for these cars are even higher then the monthly payment on the SHO and beats the hell out of my previous car, a Lumina Euro.
Carter Fuji

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11/24/2004

Having owned seven of these cars (3 Gen II and 4 Gen III), I thought I'd
chime in. The manual transmission cars (2 92's) were awesome runners. In
fact, having owned more than a couple of 5.0 Mustangs, I thought they
performed similar with the added convenience of a real trunk and room for
four or five. I always thought they looked neat, too. The downside was the
constant repairs and the fact that dealers saw you coming and closed the
garage door. I'll never forget the first 92 I had lost the water pump and
it took one dealer nearly 7 hours to fix it. I know they were incompetent,
but they didn't think so. And every time I drove in there, there would be
no one at the service desk. The dash did the jitterbug over rough surfaces
and was it ever noisy. It has soul and I loved it and my other 92.

My 94 was a special order with an automatic. I had already been having
trouble with my knee, so I decided to chicken shift. It was a little more
refined and bulletproof--no major problems even today (I know the guy who
bought it). It had soul, too because it drove like a dream.

I bought my first Gen III in 1997, also a special order. When I took it for
its first drive, I couldn't believe how sturdy and heavy it was. It didn't
run as good as any of my Gen II's (except maybe for the 94), but the
quietness, the seats (I always thought the Gen II seats were very stiff and
uncomfortable--JMO), and the amenities made me fall in love all over again.
I felt the same way about the 96 I bought off of a used car lot in 98 and
the 98 I bought from a dealer in 99. At one time I had 3 Gen III's here.
Maybe I was getting older (I was 49 when I got my first Gen III), but I
liked the comfort. One short two year period after I totaled the first 92
in a SVT Contour and I discovered that I liked the car even more. I liked
the size of the Contour and the power was about equal and the shifter was
sweet that I could use it even with the knee, but the build quality was
horrible and the radio sucked.

The cam problems probably ruined my feelings for the Gen III's a little, so
I sold the 98 in March and bought an Acura. I love the Acura. It's quieter
than the SHO. The interior is more luxurious and the engine in the thing
will wind forever. It handles like it's on rails. I also like the
shiftable automatic transmission.

But, guess what? In August, I bought another Gen III. I love this car,
too. On this one Kirk had welded the cams and there were no worries. A car
must have soul if you keep going back. And I do. I don't know what I'll do
when this one gets upwards of 200K miles on it and there are no
replacements.

Ron Fleshman
Rainelle
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11/26/2004

My '89 had plenty of soul. My '97 has less but I like it better. This is best described by analogy:

The '89 was like my 16 y/o girlfriend in high school. I thought about her all day. My heart skipped a beat every time I saw her. She encouraged me to live dangerously, and I couldn't say no. She spent all my money, repeatedly hurt me, and I always forgave her. When I finally traded her in I was a little sad but a lot relieved.

My '97 is like my best bud who I've been friends with for 20 years. I've never daydreamed about him. There'll never be a "spark" between us. Heads don't turn when he walks into a room. But after 20 years he's still more fun to hang out with than any of my other friends. Plus, he never expects me to buy him anything.

Finally, I want to second the comment below. While shopping for my wife's car a few months ago I got to test drive about a dozen new cars in the $35-50k price range and when driving the SHO home from each dealership I never felt like it was a step down from the car I'd just tested.

Mike
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My Thanks to all who responded. When I read that statement on ShoTimes last night, it just kinda bothered me. Every GIII I have ever seen belonging to what Don so aptly describes as an enthusiast has been it's own unique work of art. Each one, IMHO, possessed its own Soul. I know my reborn 97TR is more spirited than ever, and with some other tweaks that were done while undergoing heart transplant, feels better than new.

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