EcoBoost car impressions

new EcoBoost car impressions

12/4/2010

Ok having lived with the MKS EcoBoost for a few weeks now, I have to say it fits the SHO formula of shoving a high output engine in a family sedan, then slather it with luxury features.

For a cash buy, I think the SHO is by far the better deal. For a lease, the MKS was actually much less expensive for me Z plan than a SHO.

But cost aside you can see that the MKS is a Lincoln, mostly from the ride and interior. Not sure it's worth the extra purchase price, but if I were doing it again I would pay a little more on a lease for the Lincoln to get it. Plus the soft shocks really do help the weight transfer on launch.

Radar cruise control - it is addictive. I can actually use it in rush hour traffic in Houston. You won't make the kind of time you make in manual, but you CAN use cruise in traffic, which is novel.

Auto Park - have yet to be brave enough to let the car steer for me yet to try it.

AWD - I'd prefer a rear-biased system like the STS, but it has less push under hard accel out of a corner than all prior SHOs. I'm comfortable with FWD cars to FWD-biased AWD is familar and instinctive, but it is lower performance than RWD-biased AWD systems, which corner and rotate better.

Traction control - blech. I had gotten used to the less intrusive systems. The MKS system gets in the way, less than the one on a DHS, but much more than STS or Corvette or even LaCrosse Super. I generally run with it off. SHO version may be less intrusive.

Seats - V8 SHO still rules.

Sound - same. It's a V6 and they just never get that great V8 sound. V8 SHO wins.

Top speed - V8 SHO wins again as the fastest SHO. MKS top speed is very low - probably tire limited. I think my Tracer LTS had a higher top speed than the MKS.

Acceleration - borderline great. In cool weather in open loop you really see what it can do. A kick down to 1st feels almost Corvette like. With mods these EcoBoost cars are going to rock. Not sure I would go mod crazy on a '10 engine though.

Trans - meh. As Ford transmissions go it's not bad, and the 6 gears + flat torque curve means you are never left without some umph. I'm not a big fan of Ford FWD-based automatic transmissions. They always seem to under-engineer them. I'm only able to make them live by changing the fluid every 15k-30k miles. Do I"abuse" them? By Mustang terms, no way.

Wheels - meh. This is a lot car and it had the 20s. In pot hole land they would be awful. I'd go with the stock 19s. Here they work well, tighten up the ride a little, and I only notice them on speed bumps. I'd pass on the bling bling for some sidewalls.

Generally it's a great car, but I could have leased a BMW without employee discount for a similar price. A CTS-V would have cost me double because GM had no lease deals. I never looked at Lexus - not a drivers' car. Acuras and Infiniti had some things I'd consider for the same payment.

In the end I wanted a performance American sedan and the AWD just made it a lot more livable day to day than the other options. Quick car, no drama. It gets hard getting that power to the ground as you hit 0-60 in 5.0s and lower. What a great problem to have.

There are already more mods out for the EcoBoost than the V8 SHO had out the entire time it was in production. Long live the high-volume performance engine.

Jim

--
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it," John Gilmore
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Good review.

FWIW, my b-in-l Gil is considering an MKT EcoBoost. Finally giving up on the GM vehicles which he had been getting since his wife worked there, plus the “Government Motors” deal.

Ron
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Radar cruise control - it is addictive. I can actually use it in rush hour traffic in Houston. You won't make the kind of time you make in manual, but you CAN use cruise in traffic, which is novel.
probably the most addicting feature. it makes going back to another car painful, kinda like after getting out of my DD it really sucks to drive anything that doesn't have a HUD. one thing I just don't get, why does it beep and throw up DRIVER INTERVENTION when the car in front slows down to a certain point? the equipment is there, the radar is there, the computer is applying the brakes...for safety's sake why doesn't the system bring you to a complete stop if the car in front stops? would have been a very small step forward. I wonder if they didn't do it due to liability if they advertise it and it ever failed. but Lexus did it, seems like a good idea to me. as is, if the guy in front of you is stopping the car will brake, it will brake hard. then you get to 15-20mph or so you get DRIVER INTERVENTION, the system turns off, and the computer releases the brakes! if you didn't heed the warning, you'd smash right into the stopped car in front of you. its like one moment the system is working and its heavily braking the car, then suddenly it just lets go.

Auto Park - have yet to be brave enough to let the car steer for me yet to try it.
sucks that the SHO doesn't have this. would have been neat to see

Traction control - blech. I had gotten used to the less intrusive systems. The MKS system gets in the way, less than the one on a DHS, but much more than STS or Corvette or even LaCrosse Super. I generally run with it off. SHO version may be less intrusive.
I can't get the traction control to come on at all unless its on snow. one of the PP's features is a "true off" driving aids mode. I wonder if the TC really turns off all the way in the SHO without PP. friend with a Charger SRT8 says his TC off button only turns it down to 30%. I don't know what that means, but its not a true off.

Seats - V8 SHO still rules.
+1 you should have seen the look on the salesman's face when I told him I thought the V8's seats were better than the 2010's. sure they have more features, 10 way power adjust, memory, heating, cooling, multi-contour...but the V8's are still more comfortable.

Sound - same. It's a V6 and they just never get that great V8 sound. V8 SHO wins.
+1. V6's suck.

Top speed - V8 SHO wins again as the fastest SHO. MKS top speed is very low - probably tire limited. I think my Tracer LTS had a higher top speed than the MKS.
don't even know what the limit is. I've only had it to 120 so far. on a closed course obviously.

Acceleration - borderline great. In cool weather in open loop you really see what it can do. A kick down to 1st feels almost Corvette like. With mods these EcoBoost cars are going to rock. Not sure I would go mod crazy on a '10 engine though.
meh, borderline great after the painfully slow downshift. I guess its no worse than any other auto. kickdown to 1st feels nothing like a Corvette. at partial throttle the car pulls strong and feels great despite its aversion to downshifting unless you really step on it. on an on-ramp however at full throttle frequently leaves me thinking 'really? that's all its got?' it actually feels stronger at partial throttle than it does wide open. Corvette on the other hand...I almost never get it all the way open, scares the shit out of me.

Trans - meh. As Ford transmissions go it's not bad, and the 6 gears + flat torque curve means you are never left without some umph. I'm not a big fan of Ford FWD-based automatic transmissions. They always seem to under-engineer them. I'm only able to make them live by changing the fluid every 15k-30k miles. Do I"abuse" them? By Mustang terms, no way.
mine's had TBSs to adjust the software due to harsh shifting. it didn't fix the problem. shifts slower than the V8, but the V8 is tuned by Doug. shift points are all screwed up and designed for economy not performance. this car needs an O/D off button with a sportier shift program badly. the paddle shifters don't make up for it. mine needs to go in for a second time for tranny problems. it has 13k on it now.

Wheels - meh. This is a lot car and it had the 20s. In pot hole land they would be awful. I'd go with the stock 19s. Here they work well, tighten up the ride a little, and I only notice them on speed bumps. I'd pass on the bling bling for some sidewalls.
I like the 19's better, although when I see an SHO with the 20's sometimes I regret making that the one option I didn't buy.

In the end I wanted a performance American sedan and the AWD just made it a lot more livable day to day than the other options. Quick car, no drama. It gets hard getting that power to the ground as you hit 0-60 in 5.0s and lower. What a great problem to have.
the AWD seems to work pretty good. I brake torqued it to a couple thousand on wet pavement with the TC off in front of Robret in his mini-van once. didn't spin the tires for a split second however. on the video I made of the car on the snow, the rear wheels look like they spin faster, and the car felt like it was being pushed from behind. it actually behaved much more RWD than I expected it to when broken loose.

Mike
97 ES
10 TBM
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I imagine that the radar cruise might even make rush hour driving more consistent, by taking out some of the stop and go?

I usually try to drive close to the average speed that is possible, letting the jackrabbits in front run away for a little while and then catch them just as they are about to jackrabbit again.

It makes traffic easier and safer. Without trying it personally, I don't know if it would do that or not

ShoDoug
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I can see it being MUCH more handy in long-distance interstate
cruises, where people still sometimes drive like they're in rush-hour
traffic, even if it's not rush-hour. There's nothing more annoying
than having a cruise control set .5 MPH off of someone else, and
playing leap-frog with them for 50+ miles. Usually when that happens,
the 3rd time I pass that person, I take it up to trips and get a big
enough lead, and if they insist on catching up and passing again, I
either take an exit or drop down 5 MPH for a mile or two and let them
get a comfortable lead before re-setting my speed.

The causes of traffic jams in rush hour could certainly be helped by
adaptive cruise, but they're much more deep-seated than just
inconsistent speed-keepers, unfortunately.
JJ
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Drive one with the 20's over a small speed bump. Yuk.

For the acceleration runsh, turn TC off, AC off, and be only a couple of minutes into warm up when the oil is warm but the car is still running open loop. It hits 1st on the downshift as my 2004 'vette auto did. You can't really get the magic (impulse) out of it with the compressor or TC on. At idle the AC increases engine load from 14% to 20% according to my logger. At idle or low RPMs the AC seems to slow the ramp up to max output a touch. I wonder if there is no WOT AC cut out? If there is not, there should be.

This car would respond to UDPs IMO.
Jim
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Just a thought. My experience with temps is that oil warms up slower than coolant. Is it wise to do full throttle runs very early (a couple of minutes) in the warm up? With synthetic and lightweight oils, it isn't the problem that it was when everyone ran 40 weight or higher, but is it a concern?
Dyno Don
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Oil definitely warms up much slower than coolant. On your average Ford you'd have no idea because they don't tell you that stuff. GM on the other hand, I try not to drive until oil hits 50F at least, even then I keep it under 2000-2500 until 100F. by the time oil is 50F coolant is usually 100-120F. once moving coolant is up to temp in just a few minutes, takes half my morning commute (15 out of 30 mins) before the oil gets there. once up to temperature oil and coolant stay about the same which is right around 200 in these cold temps. 220 or so in the summer. transmission fluid stays cold much longer. ambient air temps have a huge affect on trans temps.

Engineers know that cars are treated much more like appliances than they should be by the average driver. I don't like that fact however I do want my cars designed as if the driver is going to consider them an appliance. that is that you have to go out of your way to do damage to something. many people say its not good to rev the engine high when the oil is cold. makes perfect sense, it won't flow as well or lubricate as well. but that being said, I doubt that running a cold engine hard is going to cause any damage to it especially with the lighter weight oils. now if you did that routinely every day? might be a problem. I could see damage with long term abuse like that, but I really don't think an occasional full throttle run while cold is going to hurt much of anything.

I don't really know, I'm not an automotive engineer, but I can't see it being much of a big deal. not that the average driver hits full throttle every day taking the kids to school or anything, but cars are designed with it in mind that most buyers consider their car on the same level as their oven.

Mike
97 ES
10 TBM
- Show quoted text -

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Don Mallinson <dmall@mwonline.net> wrote:

Just a thought. My experience with temps is that oil warms up slower than coolant. Is it wise to do full throttle runs very early (a couple of minutes) in the warm up? With synthetic and lightweight oils, it isn't the problem that it was when everyone ran 40 weight or higher, but is it a concern?

Don

Drive one with the 20's over a small speed bump. Yuk.

For the acceleration runsh, turn TC off, AC off, and be only a couple of
minutes into warm up when the oil is warm but the car is still running
open loop. It hits 1st on the downshift as my 2004 'vette auto did. You
can't really get the magic (impulse) out of it with the compressor or TC
on. At idle the AC increases engine load from 14% to 20% according to my
logger. At idle or low RPMs the AC seems to slow the ramp up to max
output a touch. I wonder if there is no WOT AC cut out? If there is not,
there should be.

This car would respond to UDPs IMO.
Mike
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"most buyers consider their car on the same level as their oven."

Ouch. That hits kinda close to home, as the vapors and heat from the
pilot lights on my stove are causing it to slowly rust away around the
edges, much like my SHO. And both are white, too. And, since I only
have on-street parking, my SHO has probably gotten treated WORSE than
an appliance in a lot of cases...

:(

-JJ Breen III
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It is possible that one cold run could cause damage. Although I understand what you are saying, but all it would take is one starved bearing to cause major damage.

Now if talking about an engine that has been warmed up, but allowed to cool, for instance at a drag strip in summer, you have the engine fully warmed up, then let it cool between runs, the oil will still be fairly warm, and it is just the intake that you are trying to cool. So in this instance, a couple minutes warm up should be very safe.

it is the first start of the morning, especially on cold days, that I believe a couple minutes warm up won't get the oil ready for high rpm use. I don't know of any engine builder or manufacturer that says "yea, go ahead and wing it to redline before fully warmed up". :)

Agreed, most drivers don't think about it like this, and typical part throttle use when cold probably isn't going to cause any harm, the discussion here was for max performance, using the engine still in open loop, or warm up mode to get the best start and acceleration, and we can assume full throttle.

Not trying to get any big thing going, just thought it wise to mention the possibility of harm if the oil isn't ready for red line and/or full throttle running.

Don
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I don't recommend full throttle high rpm runs when your engine is cold, but we've been building engines for over 100 years and they manage to live just fine even if you don't warm them up properly before driving. I think the biggest threat to engines is people who don't change the oil regularly and/or don't maintain the level properly.
Bj
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may have told this story here before …

I used to work for a reman plant in Winnipeg back when. We did all car and truck gas with as well as diesel (GMs mostly with a few Olds).

We had a five or six year old Ford half pint with a v6 come in. The driver was complaining about it using a litre of oil a week and the valve train making so much noise it sounded like a diesel. I can’t remember what the displacement on the motor was.

The owner left. The guys pulled the valve covers and had almost the entire crew over to their bay. It was because there was a brownish black slightly harder than Jell-O consistency stuff (oil) built up all over the place on both heads. There were literally stream paths cut into the jelly for the oil to work its way back to the oil galleries and the push rods.

It turned out that the owner had _never_ changed the oil or the filter. They checked it regularly and started adding oil when they needed to. IIRC it was somewhere into 100K KM.

He bought a reman from us and we got to tear it apart after the pull. That jelly build up was so high in the block’s valley and the oil pan that we were amazed. No pictures since digital cameras were non-existent then. That was one of the worst oil related situations I have ever seen.
Phil
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Interesting point. I like to see what an engine can do just before it is warm enough to kick over into closed loop mode. Some engines will run a lot different.

I think this is some of the car wash phenemenon - the engine running stronger with cool intake, cooler radiator fluid, but oil at or near lower end running temp.
Jim
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Yes, in the 50's and 60's similar situations happened a lot...you pull the valve cover and look and it seems like the valve cover is still there, it is piled up to be an exact copy of the inside of the valve cover!

Don

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