New 10/13/03, updated 10/15/2003, 10/16/03,2/5/2004
----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Yant
To: Buford@v8sho.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 8:19 PM
Subject: SHO on eBay
There is a nice red SHO on eBay. I asked the seller if the cam issue had been addressed with the car. Here is his response:
I have done extensive research on this alleged cam problem and from a scholarly standpoint I can share wth you my findings.
1) Being someone who has worked for the ford motor company and thus excersising all information therewith from inside sources and standard venues, I have not been able to uncover any evidence whatsover that this problem is actually a problem at all.
2) There is no such class action lawsuit in existance against Ford for any such problems regarding the SHO in spite of many rumors spread by various websites- (which, by the way- I have read them all). It is a rumor and nothing more.
3) I have had personal contact with many (at lease 40) people who are presently owners and former owners of these cars and not one has ever reported a problem with the engine at all.
That is my understanding, I don't believe what people say without proof first and I can't find any. I think I would be able to if anyone could- research is a very large part of what I do. That is of course not to say that someone out there may have had a problem- cars are just machines; but there's no news like bad news and that's all it is. A rumor.
To directly answer your question- this car has no such problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Yant
To: Buford@v8sho.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 9:53 PM
Subject:: More from eBay Seller
Yes, as I had thought I had made clear, I have seen all of the sites. However, fact from fiction isn't always easy for much of the populous to decifer. I understand your apprehension. Feel free to weld the cams, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. But I do have a question. Why would you look at a car you have such specific hang-ups about anyway? Buy something without the stigma and you will have no worries?
-Oh, and I really do know what I am talking about. Automotive engineering at my level is hard to come by, but you can believe whatever you want. I only go by facts- not rumors. That link you have sent me doesn't site one single fact- only a story and none of the descriptions in the stories fit that of what a cam sprocket failure would be. Additionally, none of that gineric information could be sited anyway. So, sorry, but that was a bad siting on your part. But then again there aren't any good sitings out there. I know b/c I've looked. Like I said- I don't expect you to understand. There really aren't many who could. No news like bad news- I do hope you find a car you are happy with and I wish you nothing but the best. Kindest regards, James
Is he talking about the V8? He's probably a sanitary engineer.
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Well spelling isn't exactly his forte either.
Christian Andretta
I'm a real engineer, with the degree and P.E. to prove it. I resent this guy's use of the word "engineer".
BJSHOV8
Lucky him, going to get out while he still has the chance.......let me do the math......he has personally dealt with 0.19% of the 21,000 V8 SHO owners and since they didn't have a problem, there must not be one.......maybe he needs to talk to any one of the (just over) 300 cam failures owners that just this website has found proof of, (even though he couldn't find any proof) and see what those people have to say about it..........The way I see it, until people like this guy, either get or know someone who gets a $13,000 repair bill from Ford for a problem that apparently doesn't exist, they just won't believe that there really is an issue. As for the rumors about a lawsuit, isn't that a matter of public record and easily proven.....he must have talked to someone at Ford and they told him what to say......the message did seem like something straight from Ford, no wait he works for Ford....so he is trained to lie about apparent facts, and redirect the blame to someone other than the name on the little blue oval.
What exactly is a "Scholarly standpoint", and where can I get one ?????
Rick Glass
'99 Silver 35,000 unwelded Flowmaster Original 40's
Funny thing is, the first response is full of $.50 words, all "scholarly" and stuff, and the second response looks like my 5 year old wrote it.
Bob
Ah, so then Chicken Little we are? What an ignorant response. Did he think the proof in the Detroit Free Press article wasn't researched? Now why would he think Ford would keep the truth from him even though he was/is employed by them, I mean I am sure they trust him with the facts they messed up! Wonder how many employees they shared the bad Pinto fuel tank issue with or the employees who bought the Explorers, CV's or the other mistakes they have made over the years. For Pete's sake, Ford has even related publicly that it is an issue, just not on as many cars as the numbers are indicating. Okay, I am going to take it as his excuse why he hasn't spent the money to get the proper thing done and yet is most likely the reason he is "getting rid of it". People like this piss me off! And what the hell is this lie about the lawsuit? Where did that information come from? Okay, so I am to believe that You and Larry have perpetuated this farce of a class-action to get all of our hopes up so we stay hooked up to V8SHO for what purpose? Must be some logic to this guys comments but I as of yet fail to see none other then he is towing the company line, which seems to be made of fecal matter as the engineering logic that designed these camshafts .
Thanks Tim for setting the mood for my entire day.
Carter Fuji
One of the DOCUMENTED cam failures who believed sticking his head in the sand would make it go away!
Just another former customer FOMOCO that has cost them millions of dollars because they refuse to stand behind their products. '97 ES Whoosh
Like it when my infallible Dell decides to lockup in the middle of spell check and do strange things.
As I was saying:
Must be some logic to this guys comments but I as of yet see none other then he is towing the company line, which seems to be made of fecal matter along with his excuses as an ENGINEER, by the way, don't we have at least a handful of them here as well a metallurgist, a nuclear certified machinist, at least one advanced degreed physicist and several chemist? Good thing our paychecks don't come from Ford so we can share with others what we know of this "non-existent problem".
Carter Fuji
Hey Michelle- Is it possible that you may be able to share this engineer's Email address with us? If so please make sure to copy the mail to "V8sho@v8sho.com". I have a cam and some valves to SHO him so that this ass-hat can explain to me what REALLY happened to the car that these parts came out of.
FWIW- I'm an Engineer too. This clown must be a Train Driver. I fear his info might be passed along to other folks and would like to "Inform" him.
Regards Eric Lehmann 97 Ebony 37k Welded 97 TR 123k Welded, Revived Cam failure 91 Jade Plus SHO-fa
I have been watching this thread unfold this morning, and I'm glad Carter got to it before I did. I for one don't really care about this moron, much as I don't care about NQB - put them both in the same place. However to make a statement that is so blindingly stupid is monumental IMHO. BTW
"The complaint has been assigned Case number 02 CH 22086 and was filed in the Circuit Court of Cook County Illinois, County Department, Chancery Division."
This is a direct quote from the press release I sent out Last December. AFAIK as of this moment it is still an active case, we are responding to Ford's 2nd attempt at having it dismissed. It won't be there last. I don't know which is the bigger crime here, blatant stupidity, or just pure ignorance.
With any luck the purchaser will find us, do their research, and make their decision based on the Real world experiences of 310 people we know of.
Larry Eck
Hey, it was there right in front of us. We were just interpreting it wrong. Now that we know what "his level" is, it is much easier to understand his responses. (However I think there is lots of automotive engineering at his level, unfortunately for the buyers.)
> Oh, and I really do know what I am talking about. Automotive engineering > at my level is hard to come by
BJSHOV8
At Penn State ( Mining Engineering '79) I had to take a required engineering course that amounted to "Great Engineering Disasters." I would offer that this "High Level Ford Engineer" shows the arrogance and mindset that dictates engineering fiascos will continue unabated from FOMCO. His letter demonstrates better than I could explain why the class action lawsuit became necessary not only to get recompense for owners but to help effect a change in corporate climate at Ford.
The class action lawsuit is progressing in spite of Ford's effort to cause every delay. As Larry is finding out, it is very taxing to talk to a few 100 owners who have lost a $13,000 motor. Don Mallinson and others have sent Ford defective cam shafts after they failed. I don't understand what they would consider proof if they will not accept that. Maybe they should look at their own sales of new cams, heads, engines and valves?
I have no doubt this guy is an "High level Engineer at Ford" the spelling proves it. Anyone can make a mistake (cam design not spelling) but only talent like that can embody Ford's denial and arrogance; offend three generations of former Ford performance sedan owners with ignorance; and contribute to Ford's market share, stock price and profitability going into the tank.
It is one thing to lie, it is another to believe your own lies. I have said all along that we may not have a better picture but we have a different picture than Ford. Ford knows about the multiple cam failures during development. They know that all the "spare" engines got snapped up in record time. They sent "engineering teams" to inspect how many failed engines? They knew first, and they knew early, and they did not tell us, and chose to not fix it or take any responsibility.
We know that cam failures are pandemic, and effect a lot more cars than Ford is willing to admit. Owners of used SHO or those alienated by atrocious Ford service may not contact the Ford help line. The problem is much worse than that which can be documented from only Ford sources. In my opinion by the end of the year more than 90% of V8SHOs will have experienced cam failure. One indication is the strong drop off in reported cases of cam failure during the last half year.
Other folks, whom I respect and consider best friends opine the toll may be half or even one-quarter that. Only time and the discovery process will tell. Since I am the most pessimistic, assuming I am wrong, if only half or one-quarter of the V8SHOs have premature cam sprocket failure I am still very confident we will prevail in court. Can Ford argue 25%, or 50% or 90% of car owners abuse and neglect their cars?
Well-
I did some more homework.
I guess I'll take your comments in the order I received them.
"I have done extensive research on this alleged cam problem and from a scholarly standpoint I can share wth you my findings."
Scholars Study a problem from a supposedly educated and unbiased perspective. Your responses to me were neither and you should use "Spell Check" a little more often.
"1) Being someone who has worked for the ford motor company and thus excersising
all information therewith from inside sources and standard venues, I have not been able to uncover any evidence whatsover that this problem is actually a problem at all. "
http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/CamFailureLinks.htm Please go halfway down the page and start counting. I see over 300 people who got royally screwed by this "Non Issue".
"2) There is no such class action lawsuit in existance against Ford for any such problems regarding the SHO in spite of many rumors spread by various websites- (which, by the way- I have read them all). It is a rumor and nothing more."
The complaint has been assigned Case number 02 CH 22086 and was filed in the Circuit Court of Cook County Illinois, County Department, Chancery Division." Hope this helps your Vast Resource Database.
"3) I have had personal contact with many (at lease 40) people who are presently owners and former owners of these cars and not one has ever reported a problem with the engine at all.
That is my understanding, I don't believe what people say without proof first and I can't find any. I think I would be able to if anyone could- research is a very large part of what I do. That is of course not to say that someone out there may have had a problem- cars are just machines; but there's no news like bad news and that's all it is. A rumor."
http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/CamFailureLinks.htm Please contact some of these "Rumors". They might sway your opinion.
"To directly answer your question- this car has no such problem. They are not welded. The car runs perfect and really is the nicest one you will be able to find. The rear and passenger seats look as if they have never been sat in. Gool luck, and thanks for your inquary".
2 Things - 1- I disagree with you. 2- Are you Drunk? Try spell check.
My next letter-
To quote: It Also has a Ford Factory approved upgrade exhaust and engine air filter boosting the horsepower to a whopping 270!
I looked at the picture of your engine, It appears to have a regular looking airbox. Is that a factory upgrade? The exhaust - what type of factory upgrade? duals?
Also, I see that your reserve has not been met. Is the $10,000 opening bid your minimum sell price?
"Exhaust is twin flowmasters, cat back and a k&n airfilter. Certification sticker and rating is from the Ford dealer- which is where I get my information. According to them, it's a plus 15hp from each muffler and 5hp with the filter alone and no mods to the box, which is preferable. I questioned them, but they said that the factory mufflers really block up the flow, so it's no joke."
Ford does not Certify Aftermarket Mufflers and these won't buy you 30 HP. Do a search on SHOFORUM.com under "gen3 Mufflers."
"Reserve is 10,700 which I think is more than fair for this car."
Have you wondered WHY No One has bid on your car?
EDMUNDS.com has the 98 SHO listed at $7020.00 average.
To finish.
Your small print REEKS of treachery to come -
The seller shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defects herein, and makes no warranty in connection therewith.
Another:
The seller shall and will make every reasonable effort to disclose any known defects associated with this vehicle at the buyer's request prior to the close of sale.
I'd say You are lying through Your teeth.
I don't want THIS car at ANY price.
Eric Lehmann
Stop Lying to people. It's a great car. It has a flaw. There are 312 examples of this flaw. Ford has no replacement engines.
The Replacement cams are the same defective, press fit cams.
Get your head out of the sand. Here is a quote from jasper:
Model: 1996 TAURUS 3.4L COMPLETE
The list price on this engine is $7,642.50 with core return.
We use a 'like for like' exchange program which means that we require the same type castings to be returned to us as the unit we sent out to you. As long as there are no visible external holes or cracks there is no core fee. We do require the exchange core to be returned within 30 days of the original sale date. If there would be external damage half the core deposit would be charged back.
The Complete version will be completely remanufactured using a new set of internal parts: pistons, rings, bearings and timing components, valves, valve springs, retainers and lifters. All other castings and components will be remanufactured back to OEM specifications. The engine will be reassembled and live run tested with checks on oil pressure, water temperature and vacuum. This engine includes the block, head(s), oil pump and pan, timing cover and finishing gaskets.
********IMPORTANT INFORMATION********
If vehicle is equipped with an external oil cooler in radiator, oil cooler MUST be replaced before warranty is valid.
UPDATES: CAMS PINNED-To prevent cam from shifting in head, thus preventing catastrophic cam failure.
OVERSIZED CAMSHAFT: This eliminates virtually all valve train noise. The camshaft is spray-welded and the weld is ground down to match the O.E.line-bore and oil clearance specifications
ALL O.E.M. GASKETS & TIMING COMPONENTS-Ensures highest durability and quality.
VITON VALVE STEM SEALS: This material meters oil from the first running of engine. Its design is extremely resistant to heat, oil additives and abrasions.
M.L.S. (Multi-Layered Steel) HEAD GASKET: The superior multi layered design of this gasket is excellent in the prevention of gasket leakages.
MOLY RINGS: Reduces friction for higher durability through reduced cylinder wall wear.
TIMING COVER INSTALLED
For an additional $ 637.19 JASPER now offers an installation kit for this engine. This kit comes with a water pump, spark plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, upper and lower radiator hoses, thermostat, PCV valve, belts, clamps, by-pass hose, crank breather and filters (oil, air and fuel). All parts are new and can be shipped to you.
NOTE: TO FIGURE IN IF SHIPPING FEES APPLY WE WILL NEED THE ZIP CODE OF THE DELIVERY ADDRESS PRIOR TO SHIPMENT.
HAVE YOUR VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER AVAILABLE PRIOR TO ORDERING TO VERIFY THE CORRECT STOCK NUMBER IS BEING SHIPPED.
THE LIMITED** WARRANTY ON THIS ENGINE IS:3 YEARS OR 75,000 MILES ON PARTS AND LABOR.
Model: 1996 TAURUS 3.4L AX4N TRANSMISSION COMPLETE
The list price is $ 1,980.00 with a core returned.
Automatic transmission comes with friction clutch plates, sprag, bearings, races, bushings, washers, gaskets, sealing rings, lip seals, filter or screen assembly, new or relined bands and front pump assembly. The valve body will be remanufactured and calibrated. The torque converter will also be remanufactured and balanced. Every automatic transmission is dynamometer tested with checks on shift pattern, oil pressure, stall test, fluid leak test and park test.
UPDATES:
1. Exclusive to JASPER, we are using a special made stator support. Produced from a much harder material, it aids in the prevention of premature
wear.
2. A NEW EPC solenoid is installed for proper pressure control.
3. A NEW pump shaft bearing is used for extended life.
4. Two high wear areas of this transmission have been updated. JASPER installs a NEW updated line pressure modulator valve kit and will update the regulator valve and converter by pass valves to address this problem.
THE LIMITED** WARRANTY ON THIS TRANSMISSION IS: 36 MONTHS OR 75,000 MILES ON PARTS AND LABOR.
Here is the case number of the law suit:
The complaint has been assigned Case number 02 CH 22086 and was filed in the Circuit Court of Cook County Illinois, County Department, Chancery Division.
I have no predisposition towards you as an individual, I do to people who ignore reality. Feel free to contact me for some FACTS. And yes I can put you in touch with the person who got screwed by a "Dealer" to the tune of 22K. Sell the car for whatever you can get, just stop lying.
Larry Eck
Webmaster V8SHO.COM
97 Red
Mods
Welds
________________________________________________________________________
Sorry, don't mean to be a pest, however I am sure as you, like myself, are an advanced degreed scientist or engineer, would be most interested in the truth and facts. As I have researched this problem most extensively over the last 2 years I would be happy to share my knowledge with you. If you will note my name, it appears as the first words in a very well written and researched Detroit Newspaper article by Jeffery McCracken of October 24th, 2002 http://www.auto.com/industry/taurus24_20021024.htm that references the subject you relate to as rumor. You might note that the article was published in the business section of the paper read by the executives of the major automotive manufactures In fact it was so interesting that the subject was picked up by several other automotive publications and further scrutinized by many much higher level engineers in the automotive field then you or I.
My repair invoice would be the one that is on the bottom right on the front page of that article (a mere $7,824.84 from an independent shop). Two of the three Ford dealers I took my car to gave me quotes in writing of over $17,000 to repair because in their words, they don't know enough about the inside of this motor to be rebuilding it and couldn't give me a completion date. The third told me to take it back to the first one. The price they quoted included $13,000 list the factory crate motor which they told me was no longer available even though it had only been 2 years out of production and yes, that was ONLY the cost of the motor from the parts department. Look it up yourself. My sprocket failure is also logged with the NHTSA as it occurred on an interstate and was endangering other motorist according to the State Police.
One other note of interest of course is that Ford Motor Company itself, after our suggestions did in fact perform extensive and destructive testing of the camshafts. I am sure the results would be of as much interest to you as they were to most of us and of course would in all probability hasten your selling of the car since you have unlimited access to this data.
I would encourage you to have the owners who had multiple failures forward you copies of their documents of the replacement camshafts meet the same demise as the ones they replaced.
I live in a community of 80,000. I have had personal contact, as in face to face with twelve V8 SHO owners here. Five of them sold/traded the car because of the camshaft issue after the dealer had seen four of them fail and warned the other owner who had his in for a transmission problem. I assumed they wholesaled them as I do not see them in town anymore. Four of the others that had failed are still awaiting repair as the owners cannot justify or afford the repair cost and two of the remaining cars were sold out of state. The last one was totaled.
The purpose of my writing this is I would think it would be only proper and fair for you to inform your prospective buyer who may not have had previous V8 SHO experience that the camshafts are an area of great concern and no, you have not addressed them but you have appropriate information for the issue. It is so disconcerting to see people buy a SHO that they will suddenly have to spend $7,000 to $13,000 to get running again before they make the first payment. We have such an individual that has inquired as to what to do just this past week.
Carter Fujibayashi
Just another former customer FOMOCO that has cost them millions of dollars because they refuse to stand behind their products.
'97 ES
I thank you for taking the time to respond. I have but one question, which Ford Dealer claims to have these motors in stock and only for $3,500? I know over 150 cars that will be taking them up on that offer.
I expect the performance and engineering I pay for. When I purchased a $30,000 domestic in '97, I would hope it would outlast and perform better then my $25,000 Cadillac and certainly better then my $10,000 Chevy. The later two have yet to have any major service. I and my wife drive the Chevy like it was stolen and the Caddy has seen the hands of no less then 6 teenagers. Both of them are well intro the 200,000 mile range now. The SHO on the other hand is mine and mine alone and never made it to the specified first tune-up at 100,000 before two major failures. Am I bitter, yes. Do I think it will happen to all of them, have you ever heard of the Catera?
It is an inherent design flaw. Any competent engineer will state that upon dissection and testing. I have performed this and I have paid for it to be performed. Anyone who says less either hasn't examined it or is being paid by people who would prefer this information not be shared.
I would still like to know what dealer has that motor listed for that price. Can't even get a short block domestically built Cobra motor for that.
My dealer did tell me just 45 minutes ago his cost was $11,867 for a '99, but of course the number was discontinued in February of this year.
Thank you for the information.
Carter Fuji
Just another former customer FOMOCO that has cost them millions of dollars because they refuse to stand behind their products. '97 ES Whoosh Supercharger Video Link Greenwood, AR.
From: swiss chronometer
To: Carter Fuji >
Subject: Re: Not trying to beat a dead horse
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:37:38 -0700 (PDT)
OK look- This is my fourth V-8 SHO. None of them have ever given me any problems at all. Cars are machines and I have no doubt that there may and are indeed flaws out there in some SHO motors. But to go around preaching fire and brimstone, to me, is a waste of time. What about the thousands of SHO's out there which haven't had any problems at all? It's a bad few hundred so now every V-8 SHO is doomed? Additionally, we cannot decipher for sure that many of these cars were not in fact beat on. This is a very inexpensive sport sedan. Not 1/2 the cost of the BMW, Mercedes or other high-line counterpart which could offer the same performance. Many of them are driven very hard. Additionally, the fact is that all cars are not affected. This isn't like the '88-'96 BMW 740 engine problem which effects every BMW 4.0L engine, or the bad Caddy 4100 motor, this is a few of the mass produced. Yes it is unfortunate- but it is only a car and cars break (extended warranyies are helpful with car > repair).
To address the engine repair bill's I really do not know what to say. The full retail price of a motor from my ford dealer (brand new before any discount's) is $3,500.00- which is pretty much the same as any othe V-8engine and there isn't by any means a shortage. Plus the new motor comes with a 75,000 mile warranty (I was on the phone with them this morning). People get taken for a ride by car dealers all the time. That isn't new news. Cars break every day- which isn't new news either. The problem is people expect a car to run 150,000 with no trouble at all and unless it's a simple rear-wheel drive car, that is not likely to happen; or maybe it will- one can't know for sure because machines are not infallible. More often than not it is the high-line of any car make which has the most problems. Check out the warranty surveys of all of the major car companies and you will see mechanical failures rise with the price of the vehicle. BMW, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Lotus, > Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Porsche, etc- none can seemingly escape mechanical failures, all of which can leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere with a huge repair bill. So I appreciate your time and article- but it is still "doom and gloom" to me and I don't feel it is necessary in the slightest. I have owned more cars of many different makes than people have ordered hamburgers and hot dogs in their lifetime and the problems which arise are- on one level or another all the same old nonsense. Apparently we simply do not see eye to eye, and that's ok. \
We just disagree- > >Thank's for taking the time
swisschronometer@sbcglobal.net
He is calmer this time, looks as though he ran spell check on most of it, thinks a SE Taurus is better then his 740iL and still doesn't sign his name. Makes some interesting points, must be close to being sober at the moment. Last line pisses me off enough though I think I'll have to respond
Carter Fuji
Just another former customer FOMOCO that has cost them millions of dollars because they refuse to stand behind their products. '97 ES Whoosh Supercharger Video Link Greenwood, AR.
From: swiss chronometer
To: Carter Fuji
Subject: Beat the horse into the ground
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
Ohhh- the Catera. Still a lot on the road though; an Opel dies hard and often, he, he. To me- all cars are the same though. Some break more often than others and I do really hate most of them, I have my favorites and that's it. As far as getting what you pay for? That's the biggest load of crap in the world. Even $30,000 on a taurus - SHO or not- is nuts. It's still a taurus. On the lift the car is just about identical to the standard model and now people (like my neighbor) are paying more than that for a friggin Maxima! I can go on forever- I too have a Caddy which will probably outlive me and an Astrovan beater that for the last 160,000 has been on it's last legs. They'll probably just drive it right into the car crusher. On the other hand most of the high end cars I've owned have been a waste of money and time where daily transportation is concerned. Case in point, I just took a long trip in a 2003 taurus and was shocked. It out handles my 740iL, has a more comfortable seat on the long ride and at 110 mph gets 26.7 miles per gallon and is very steady on the road (long boring stretches). Not to mention I only paid $10,000 for it three months ago.
My only gripe with the SHO's is that there isn't enough room under the hood for heat to evacuate quickly enough. It just needs more ventilation around the entire engine and over time the insulation around the wiring harness next to the firewall may just disintegrate from high heat exposure.
150 people you say? Well, the engines are from Jasper, with a 36 month/75,000 mile warranty. Can't beat that. A new motor is probably outrageously priced. So I'm sure you're smiling about that with an "I knew it wasn't a new engine." and an "I told you so." But a rebuild is as good as a new one from my life experience and let's face it. The whole SHO thing is really the emotional attachment people have to these cars. They still love them even when they break, (and here is where I step on toes) but they are too cheap to cough up the dough to fix it. I'll tell you how I can say that- B/C I 've met people who spent over 14,000 in VW repairs in five years (bought new) but they loved the car and never complained- the same goes for all of the Peugeot owners who thought they owned something special, or Rolls owners, Jag and Saab owners who would never admit they ever had anything wrong with their car- but if it is an American vehicle they tear it apart and scream bloody murder if anything > goes wrong. Did you know that it is a complete accident for a Peugeot to run at all and that the only reason arabs can drive a Rolls Royce in the middle of the desert is because there isn't any moisture to screw every single relay, circut board and fuse panel up. My doctor has 40,000 miles on a three year olg Jag XK-8 and drives around like the old man that he is and his transmission is toast. 5,000 for a rebuild- he never uttered a word of complaint. He just said "it's my car". So if everyone is all up in arms why aren't these flawed SHO's warrantied? It's not like an HMO where if you have a pre-existing condition, they won't take you on. If these cars were under warranty, this wouldn't be much of a problem at all. I don't think there is a Hyundai on the road without one- and an SHO on the road with one.
I'll leave you with one last thought- there are an awful lot of SHO's I've seen roll through eBay and real auto auction lines and most of them have a ton of miles on them and were driven hard and guess what? That's right- no problems :)
swisschronometer@sbcglobal.net
Sounds pissed off.
I would like to know where he has located a dealer though that has a $3,500 SHO V8 with a full 3year/36,000 mile warranty?
Carter Fuji
Just another former customer FOMOCO that has cost them millions of dollars because they refuse to stand behind their products. '97 ES Whoosh Supercharger Video Link Greenwood, AR.
>From: swiss chronometer
>To: Carter Fuji
>Subject: Re: Not trying to beat a dead horse
>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:37:38 -0700 (PDT)
> >OK look- This is my fourth V-8 SHO. None of them have ever given me any problems at all. Cars are machines and I have no doubt that there may and are indeed flaws out there in some SHO motors. But to go around preaching fire and brimstone, to me, is a waste of time. What about the thousands of SHO's out there which haven't had any problems at all? It's a bad few hundred so now every V-8 SHO is doomed? Additionally, we cannot decipher for sure that many of these cars were not in fact beat on. This is a very inexpensive sport sedan. Not 1/2 the cost of the BMW, Mercedes or other high-line counterpart which could offer the same performance. Many of them are driven very hard. Additionally, the fact is that all cars are not affected. This isn't like the '88-'96 BMW 740 engine problem which effects every BMW 4.0L engine, or the bad Caddy 4100 motor, this is a few of the mass produced. Yes it is unfortunate- but it is only a car and cars break (extended warranyies are helpful with car > repair). To address the engine repair bill's I really do not know what to say. The full retail price of a motor from my ford dealer (brand new before any discount's) is $3,500.00- which is pretty much the same as any othe V-8engine and there isn't by any means a shortage. Plus the new motor comes with a 75,000 mile warranty (I was on the phone with them this morning). People get taken for a ride by car dealers all the time. That isn't new news. Cars break every day- which isn't new news either. The problem is people expect a car to run 150,000 with no trouble at all and unless it's a simple rear-wheel drive car, that is not likely to happen; or maybe it will- one can't know for sure because machines are not infallible. More often than not it is the high-line of any car make which has the most problems. Check out the warranty surveys of all of the major car companies and you will see mechanical failures rise with the price of the vehicle. BMW, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Lotus, > Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Porsche, etc- none can seemingly escape mechanical failures, all of which can leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere with a huge repair bill. So I appreciate your time and article- but it is still "doom and gloom" to me and I don't feel it is necessary in the slightest. I have owned more cars of many different makes than people have ordered hamburgers and hot dogs in their lifetime and the problems which arise are- on one level or another all the same old nonsense. Apparently we simply do not see eye to eye, and that's ok. We just disagree- > >Thank's for taking the time
This guy has never seen me eat hamburgers, I wish him luck. Odd how Ford folks will go to any lengths to rationalize an design flaw of theirs.
Next time try this: we were wrong, we made a mistake, we have a new fool proof cam, let us put it in for you.
Buford
Dear Sir,
I am writing in response to the letter I just read from you a few days ago while trying to make a decision on a car that I really love and have been wanting for some time, I have been reluctant to buy one with this so called controversy surrounding them but after reading Fords words and a few owners like you I finally decided to just throw caution to the wind and satisfy myself with a worldly treasure. I am 100% disabled and money is very limited to say the least. But I had saved enough to buy a very nice 1996 SHO V8 red with every option one owner (who like yourself said that there isn't much to that cam failure thing. He had driven the car and took unbelievable care in it's maintenance. I flew to Chicago from Houston on a ticket purchased by my Folks for me because I put all my available funds into this car because it was that nice, Well I left Chicago with a grin that would melt Ice or so I thought it would, It was -10 below zero with the wind figured and starting to snow which was cool as we see very little snow here in Texas where I was headed. I guess as you may be thinking this must be going somewhere. Well your right I am driving south enjoying the nicest thing I ever owned and at Mile marker 191 just south of Gary and about an hour and a half into my two day trip home when all the sudden while at 70 miles per hour on Cruise control it started clattering and by the time I was able to get to the side of the road it was all over but the crying, I know because, I did that for some time, Now I know that I haven't had four of these cars like some, Nor do I have an engineering degree like others, But I can say with great pride that before My disability got me, I was a ASE Certified Master Mechanic , An Automotive Repair Shop Owner, and Automotive Technical School Instructor Universal Technical Institute, Which does factory Training for a few of the smaller Car companies Like Jaguar, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, And BMW just to name the smaller one, So with all that experience behind me and a major loss of compression Accompanied by some god-awful noises under the hood. Or it could have been that liquid substance coming from underneath my Dream Car. That made me realize that it could only spell one thing. “CATASTROPHIC CAM FAILURE”. So I say to you my friend and fellow Car enthusiast, Before you write letters form a educated and seemingly knowledgeable position, Please Find out what the hell your talking about . and know one thing Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean its not happening, Thank you and God Bless!
Oh and one other thing I'll be needing that $3500 engine that so authoritatively assured me was available, Matter of fact I think I'll take two, Just in case as you never can be too
careful it seems. And at any rate I wanted you to know I appreciated your advice, and would appreciate more if in the future you just maybe kept it to yourself.
Mike Russell michaelr1960@yahoo.com
http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/MikeCamFailure343.htm
Mike's story is on the above link. Still waiting final details.