I did test a few things on the trip to OK. I took my mamanometer with some
extra hose, the extra cooler for the oil cooler water and the fuel filter in the
PCV line.
The mamanometer proves high and low pressure areas on a scale of 1 to 10 inches
of water calibrated in 2/10" graduations. It is real hard to have a stable
base point for "normal" pressure. I found that the cabin with the CC
on but at the lowest fan setting to be the most representative of static
pressure If I closed the windows and turned the CC off it tends to seal off the
cabin, with the windows open it creates low pressure in the cabin. I tested the
fender area where my cone filter is, the under hood area where an open filter
would be, at the grill opening and two places at the cowl.
All showed some degree of higher pressure most around +8/10" at 60 to 80
mph. The cowl up by the CC intake was similar but at the windshield wipers it
was +2" to 3". This is a good high pressure area which would increase
with speed.
The extra cooler didn't leak even with the off road excursions and I'm sure did
help in the OK heat. The harder the engine is worked the more this will help.
The gas filter was a clear plastic one and was distorting from the heat. It did
allow some of the vapor to condense and stay on the housing. This with only 2800
miles. I replaced it with an all metal one.
Just for the record as far as Bob Fijal reported on the use of synthetics, Doug
Lewis was referring to racing conditions with disregard to the normal change
intervals. The ATX fluid in my '97 will last only 15k on regular fluid and 30k
on synthetic. It is far more important here to have clean fluid. A good test of
cleanliness of your fluid is a drop of new and some from you tranny stick on a
white paper towel. You will know when you see it. I use Amsoil in the tranny and
PS. I have no upshift problems but it is slow to downshift into 2nd when done
manually.
As far as oil goes I've been looking for a reason to go to regular dino juice. I
think if changed at 3k there is no problem as long as the correct weight for the
season is used. Doug Lewis theorized that the synthetic oil allowed both the cam
and the shims to wear at the same rate. The shims are suppose to take the wear
and the cam shouldn't show any. He has seen Yamaha engines run on synthetic with
worn down cam lobes.
Paul Nimz
Well let me ask this question..... the 96-99 SHO's engine and transmission
are exactly the same correct? How is Mercon V recommended for the 98-99 SHO's
while mercon 4 (or was it 3?) is recommended for the 96-97 SHO's??? They are the
SAME thing?? Just curious.
Ryan S.
Pittsburgh, PA
97 TR
Porterized w/ K&N panel
Dynomax Thrush Turbo Mufflers
SARC Switch
Xenon Remote Control Driving Lights
What ever type you use I would not pay any attention to the OEM change
interval. Way too long.
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Where has Scooter been lately? Scott Miller, he's your boy right Ryan. He would also have first hand knowledge of trannies using MercV vs. Merc III. I remember him sayin something about the trannies he took apart in school and the clear differences between those with the V and those with III. I'm sure the clutch packs and what not have been modified for the newer fluid.
Chris
lol.. well i'm going to see him tonight .. (party at sharons). Not sure if
he'll know what to recommend.. well he might i dunno.. i'll ask him though. He's
been offlist alot i'm sure.. working alot and it's summer.. you gotta be outside
w/ a 6 pack strapped to your waste detailing the car.. or something!
Ryan S.
Pittsburgh, PA
97 TR
Porterized w/ K&N panel
Dynomax Thrush Turbo Mufflers
SARC Switch
Xenon Remote Control Driving Lights
That just blows...............everything that i've ever thought about synthetic fluids is going down the drain. Although I don't want to believe what Doug said, I kinda have to since very few people know more about these cars than Doug. What about synthetic motor oils exactly causes problems with our V6 and V8 engines? Is it just not compatible or something like that?
June H. Han
Apparently the synthetics do too good of a job. In the ATX it is slippage
when the clutches make contact, and on the engine it is that the valve shim is
too well protected. He did say that if you want the tires to bark on upshifts it
is a matter of adjustment. I've had extremely good luck with the Amsoil ATX
fluid and will continue using it in this tranny.
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Doug also said that the synthetic oil problem was specific to the Yamaha
motors. Their valve shims are 1 step softer than the cam lobes. If they were two
or 3 steps softer there would be no problem. Perhaps a blend of dino and
synthetics would be the answer? I believe in the case of Mercon V that it is a
blended formula.
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Ford makes running changes and model year changes in their transmissions.
Different springs and friction material are two things they can change. All Gen
3 SHOs have the AX4N. 96-97 use Mercon or Dexron III. All 98-99 use Mercon V.
Glen Murdock
Port Lavaca,TX
97 PG 66k
89 CR 127k
WE had fun at work this week... one of the claims adjusters had a 97 Sable
tranny fail and had a hell of a time getting parts. Seems the front pump blew
up. {behind a 3.0 Duratec}. Ford pump $1200 and no stock {surprise}Mister
Transmission {shop were car was at, Nation wide Chain here} could not get parts,
one of our rebuilders could not get them. Customer wanted his car back in a
hurry. As outlined in his agreement we offered a used one. {55,000kms on unit
car has 123,000kms on it} no flames or comments any one wants to know why can
contact me off-list. Well seems that the Taurus/Sable use a different
Transmission depending on where the heck the shifter is {floor vs. Column}. Then
the shop says well it must have a SHO tranny in it. OK I check a TSB for Hard
shifts and it shows 4 different part numbers. One for the SHO, one for the 3.0
Vulcan {slug} and 2 for the duratec depending on the shifter. I had read
somewhere that the SHO Trans uses one more clutch plate in its packs... anyone
knew if it is true???
Also I posted about one of our customer's have a loud tick in his SHO at Idle.
Have not heard how the Shop as made out but last conversation I had on Wednesday
with Dealership was the problem was a Sticking intake valve. Cause was Carbon
build-up. they used a borescope and could see the carbon buildup on the valve
and in the combustion chamber. Customer drives to and from Toronto for work, All
highway miles... Garage was waiting for a machine from Snap-ON Tools {big
coin}to clean it out. Strikes me as odd since car had a head off last year for
heli-coiling a spark plug hole when shop cross threaded a hole and plug decided
to depart the engine on our highway 401....
Clare Allenby
96 TR w/Graphite Cloth Interior
35% Window Tint
Chrome Explorer V8 Badges
P225/55/16 94V Yokohama Avid V4
Cherry Bomb Turbo II Mufflers
London, ON
You're right, Bob. The tranny fluid choice has nothing to do with driving
conditions, but the setup of the clutches, etc. Synthetic in a non-synthetic
tranny (a la pre-'98) is not recommended because the friction is too low for the
clutch material. The tranny must be set up for the synthetic. Now, putting
non-synthetic in a synthetic tranny should firm up the shifts.....hmmmmm.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
Obviously Ford changed the internals for the different fluid. I'm sure that
this is how Doug can set up the tranny for either dino or synth, depending on
what you want. Mercon has been around forever, so they obviously did some
upgrades for the Mercon V.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
I am a believer in the 3K oil change, and the correct weight is 5W-30 for all
seasons, I don't see a need to adjust.
OTOH, I'm glad that I ran 0W-30 Mobil 1 for this trip. I was going to do an
extended change with the Mobil 1 ((I even put in a better Bosch filter). I
looked at the oil today, and it is darker than any oil I've seen in the car so
far, and this is after 2K miles from the trip & Hallett. The tranny fluid
picked up some color also. I'll just go with a 3K change for the oil/filter,
plus do another Mercon V change. I'll go back to dino 5W-30 with the "on
sale" oil filter, though.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
Are two topics getting confused here? There is the synthetic tranny juice and
the synthetic motor oil.
June, the tranny issue makes perfect sense. A certain amount of friction is
required for the clutches to work properly, and the tranny must have clutch
material and engagement routines to work properly.
The shim issue has to do with the motor oil. Doug claims to have seen this on
the SHO cam lobes. He believes that synthetic is great for every engine
application, except where the Yamaha cam lobes are concerned.
From all I've heard, and from what Doug said, Mercon V is a full synthetic.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
How the hell do you get carbon in an engine with EFI running unleaded fuel?
Especially with highway miles?
That ticking sounds like Mike Holhut's sound that Doug diagnosed as the cam
sprocket.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
hmmm.. didn't you all say he drove home w/ it like that? Couldn't that
totally screw up his engine if it totally went off? If it went off.. wouldn't
there be a 100% chance of hitting a valve and screwing up like the valves..
cams.. piston.. even the crank??? I think I'd call AAA or something.. hehe. I
dunno.. that would SUCK though.
Ryan S.
Pittsburgh, PA
97 TR
Porterized w/ K&N panel
Dynomax Thrush Turbo Mufflers
SARC Switch
Xenon Remote Control Driving Lights
The PCV system will introduce gunk that when heated, the lighter components
will evaporate and carbon will be left behind.
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Ron, since you've been running dino oil for this long, it probably normal that your 0w30 Mobil 1 should be very dark. Since most synthetics have a superior detergent and anti-sludge package than dino oil, it probably was just doing it's job and cleaned out your engine. I actually had the same thing happen to me when I first switched to Mobil 1 from using nothing but dino oil on my old 97 SLO. After a few synthetic oil changes, the oil didn't get so dark so quickly.
June H. Han
Jason,
After every convention the synthetic thing comes up after Doug's talk. I can't
explain why Doug sees cam wear with synthetic (and he says it is with both Mobil
1 and Amsoil along with other synthetics). Several other SHO mechanics that work
on a lot of motors do not see the same pattern. Maybe it is the heat in Atlanta?
Maybe it is luck of the draw, maybe it is true.
I like and recommend (and sell Amsoil, so this is my "truth in
advertising" disclaimer) synthetic oil. I have 176,000 on my 89 with
synthetic since the car was 40,000 miles young. I see no cam wear, but I am only
looking at one motor. Maybe it is how the car was broken in. I still believe in
breaking in motors on conventional oil, even though the Corvette, several diesel
companies and other cars come brand new with synthetic and have no problems.
With any oil, you should change it on a regular planned schedule. Synthetics
won't last longer than regular oil UNLESS they are formulated that way. Amsoil
is. Maybe some of those failures come from using synthetic not formulated for
extended drain intervals. I also believe in oil analysis. Test your oil
regularly to see what is happening. I believe in good filters and extra bypass
filtering if possible. I say you can use Mobil 1 (even Amsoil says it is good
oil, just not AS good as Amsoil :) ) without fear. keep it fresh according to
the manufacturer and oil manufacturer recommend. Use a good filter. If in doubt,
use a quality regular oil, change it often and don't worry. If you go racing,
change the oil immediately though, conventional oil just can't take the heat
that synthetic can.
Don Mallinson
I have been using Mobil 1 for about 14,000 miles. I change it every 4,000-5,000 miles. I will say, tho, that it is cleaner looking than some of the other cars I have changed oil on, with regular oil. I'll continue to use it, because I can go the extra mileage on it, and it gets to be a pain to do the upkeep on our cars. Especially since we both drive so much.
Thanks for the insight, Don.
Jason
First, 98-99 V8 SHOs transmissions are designed for Mercon V, which I understand is semi synthetic. 96-97 SHO take regular Mercon ATF. Except in my case, when my 97 went I had it rebuilt to Mercon V tolerances so I could use the better fluid.
Second, with the utmost respect to Doug Lewis and his views on synthetic motor oil, the way to figure this all out is with systematic oil analysis. You can see any changes in wear rates by elemental metal. I have had low wear rates with Mobil 1 5w30.
Ford recommends 5w-30 year round in the SHO engine, the engine tolerances were designed around the specifications for 5w30. I have tried 0w30 in winter with out any problems. The new 5w-20 is NOT recommended, and higher viscosity motor oils don't match the behavior and requirements of the V8 engine.
My most several most recent oil analysis shows much higher oxidation levels. My car is not running any warmer. This could be because of the new Mobil 1 formulation, or because the larger 1 quart filter comes that much closer to an exhaust pipe. As soon as I got the last results and noticed the trend I went back and put a smaller OE size oil filter on. If oxidation goes back down I it will indicate 1 qt oil filters are not the way to go. If it stays the same I think it will prove the new Mobil 1 formulation is not as heat tolerant and should not be changed every 5k but every 3k.
Buford
Ok, this is more or less just a rambling and a thought that kinda popped into my head, but basically Doug Lewis has said that synthetic engine oil is bad for our yamaha based engines(v8sho engine is only 25% yamaha, but nonetheless a yamaha). What exactly is the definition of a synthetic oil in this case? The reason why I ask this, is because most of the oils that are claimed to be full synthetic(Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1, etc....) in fact are nearly 0% synthetic! Most of today's "full synthetic's" have switched to a hydrocracked oil in which you take regular dino oil and hack it's molecules and highly refine it which is just a crude way of explaining it. If you read the side of the bottle for oils like Mobil 1, and Syntec, it will read that it's composed of Group III Base oils which is highly suggestive that the base is just a modified and highly refined dino oil. This might explain why Mobil 1's test scores dropped a bit after they switched to their new "Tri-Synthetic" formula. Oil's like Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec or more or less a synthetic blend since the base stock is based on dino oil. Examples of "full synthetics" that are still fully synthetic with a 100% synthetic base are Amsoil, Redline, and a few others. These oils are either composed of PolyAlphaOlefin's(PAO's), or Diethers(Redline) and can truly be claimed as being 100% synthetic. If synthetic oil is not good for our yamaha based engines, what if we were to use a fully synthetic oil that really isn't fully synthetic anymore? What could we expect if we used an oil that is claimed to be fully synthetic because they modifed the molecules of a dino oil to act like a synthetic? In other words, lots of fully synthetic oils on the market act like a synthetic, but are not synthetic which is in the case of Castrol Syntec and Mobil 1. I'm pretty sure most of the other "fully synthetic" oils are not synthetic either, i've just not looked into them yet.
June Han
I've used Mobil 1 since I had my '97 SHO and run it in the '93 I've got
to.The '93 burns oil and I would like to get away from the expensive stuff. With
the comments that June has made and what Doug Lewis said along with the success
of others who use dino oil, I'm thinking of changing both back to the normal
oils. Mobil one has not lowered their price since the reformulation and I can't
rally see using it unless extended drain intervals are in the game plan.
I currently change my oil every 5k on both cars, highway driving is the norm.
What are some good brands of oil for our SHO's?
Paul Nimz
'97 TR
'93 EG mtx
Paul, Pennzoil's regular conventional oil enhanced by Pennzane is probably
the best dino oil you can buy. I havn't heard much about it except for a couple
tests that Amsoil did on it, and Pennzoil's regular conventional oil scored far
better than any other conventional oil and actually scored better than some
synthetics in the wear test! That is pretty impressive out of a regular
conventional oil. It probably doesn't have the high temperature stability, or
the low temperature fluidity of the "synthetics" on the market, but
that's pretty impressive. A lot of the crownvic.net guys use Pennzoil with
Pennzane and have been happy and have had extremely good luck with it. After
hearing about what Doug has said, i'm debating going to regular oil, but that's
kind of hard to do when you've been a diehard synthetic user your whole life. I
currently use Amsoil with extended drain intervals. I'm really curious how our
engines will be effected if I were to use one of those Group III based
"synthetic" oils like Mobil 1 or Castrol syntec since they are really
not a synthetic and Doug said that "synthetic's" were bad.
June Han
I would go with Valvoline. I talked with a mechanic who only works Honda's and he said Valvoline engines are always clean while Pennzoil and Quaker State are dirty with sludge. He will not use Pennzoil or QS in any vehicle. If I go back to dino oil I would use Valvoling 5w/30 and a good quality filter like a Bosh or AC Ultraguard that Lewis is selling. Cheap filters are just that...CHEAP. Tim Wright spent a lot of money buying filters and tearing them apart and you would be amazed at the construction of some, like Fram. Running a good quality dino oil doesn't do any good if your filter is a POS. I'm not an expert but I have access to those that are...people that rebuild engines for a living and we got to hear one last Wednesday night and what he said about the oil and the yamaha engines has been mentioned on this list a long time ago....
Bob Fijal
97
Missouri
Mobile 1 user...for now
I don't know if Valvoline has updated their formulation recently, but the
last time I checked, Valvoline had a higher ash content than almost any oil out
there. It's true that Pennzoil and QS used to form sludge due to a high amount
of parrifin in the oil, but I believe that was changed when they changed their
formulation very recently for both their conventional and synthetic oil. I
believe their conventional oil uses a base they call purebase.
June Han
I don't remember the particulars, but I had read about racers using Kendall,
and that Kendall contains more of a rather expensive additive (how's that for
scientific proof) that is better for lubricating the shear-type surfaces: like
rings, SHO cam lobes, etc. Turns out that AutoZone carries it, and I have
started using it (except when something else is on a really good sale!). It
costs the same as most of the other common oils on the shelf.
Ron Porter
Lake Orion, MI
'99 black 33K
I've run Kendall off & on since the 60's - especially when I was running a lot of very high rpm auto-x's........it's a very good high quality oil. You don't hear much about it - kind of like our SHO's.
Bill H.
I use Castrol 5w 30 and I've got 101,000 plus miles and the car has never
burned oil. I have historically changed my oil with only two exceptions at 3,000
miles and it still runs like new. With all this talk about tranny failure....I
don't want to jinx myself but the transmission is awesome and never had a
problem to this day..."knocking on wood"....:-) I have buddy who owns
a Porsche and he said he changes his transmission fluid every 12 K. I have only
changed it twice. I welcome any feedback on suggested replacement schedule or
general rule of thumb.
There are some who say concerning our cars if its working....leave it
alone.....some say better to be proactive.
I spoke to Doug years ago when I had a Superchip installed and he said then as
he appears according to recent posts....avoid the blended oils. I trusted him
then.....and I'm happy I listened to him.
Shepherd
S. D. Mims
'96 TR SHO