Questions During Teardown - Pre Cam Weld

new 5/03/2004

I've completed the disassembly for the cam weld as per the instructions (which were excellent). I had to also remove the lower intake manifold to repair a coolant leak (a coolant return hose was gradually sliding off it's nipple). I have a couple of comments and questions:

1. Most of the intake parts have a sticky golden brown 'goo' coating on them. What causes this?
Is it oil vapors from the PVC system? How best to go about cleaning this off? Can the aluminum parts be soaked in a solvent tank safely? Should I even be concerned?

2. I can see a 'significant' buildup of carbon deposits on the primary intake valve stems. What recommendations would you make to reduce and/or remove these deposits?

3. I know I'll need to replace the LOWER intake manifold gaskets with new ones, which are on order. However, the UPPER manifold gaskets MAY be reusable. I've not seen any references to installing new ones during a cam weld. Can I reuse them? Should I apply any type of sealant to be sure I get a good seal?

Any other general cleaning advise is welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Curtis Spears

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1)Yep PCV condensation of oil vapors.... Berryman's B-12 chemtool will melt
the stuff right away (buy about 8 cans to do the entire intake tract).

2)You are seeing carbon buildup on the secondary intake valves. Not allot we
can do about it except install a PCV "catch can" to condense those oil
vapors out of the PCV vacuum line before they get to the intake track as
that is what is forming most of this buildup (this would also eliminate the
buildup you refer in #1 above). You can't really remove what is there
(unless you are sure the valve is closed and gently prod it off and vacuum
it out with a shop vac and a very small crevice type of tool.

3)Ahhh the great debate... Hang them up and hit them with some black paint
right before you bolt everything back together. That should be more than
sufficient, just ensure they are still somewhat wet before you torque the
intake down.

4)Clean out your butterflies (IMR Lower intake assembly) to prolong the life
of the cable actuation setup that it uses. Ensure that you lube up the rod
after you clean the heck out of it..

Scott Krietemeyer
99 TG
96 MG

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Scott,

You were right about the carbon buildup being on the secondaries, not the primaries. I discovered that after a second look; thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps what I need to do is use WOT more often to keep the secondaries in good shape. I'd love to be able to tell my better half that frequent use of WOT is a requirement for a healthy SHO. ;)

I have the Berryman's on hand. I'll give it a go.

I've cleaned up the old UPPER intake gaskets and have decided to reuse them. I have some Permatex #2 gasket sealant that will use on it. I think that should work fine.

Thanks again.

Curtis

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1)Depends on what the solvent is. I use a carb. cleaner from Blue Coral
Industries - Just remember that it will also remove the paint. If you use it
on the IMRC and leave it too long it can cause the butterflies shaft to
bind.

2)The secondary valves are much worse. There is some disagreement on this - I
personally do clean the valve stems and backs, usually only needed on the
secondary, but you need to be very careful as they can really only be
scraped clean. There were earlier message exchanges documenting the process.
Some think they should be left alone. But the are some documented cases of
valves appearing to bind.

3)If they are in good condition they can be reused - some people spray paint
them first. I have never needed to. No other sealant is needed.

jj

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Scott,

Just thought I'd let you know that, after thinking about it a bit, it did what you said. I found some wooden shish kabob sticks and used one to break off the built-up carbon on the valve stems. It was soft and flaky and a little gooie, but not hard. I then rigged our built-in house vac with a piece of sprinkler tubing and vacuumed up the debris. I repeated this process several times on each valve with buildup. After that was completed, I blew out each port with compressed air until no fragments could be felt exiting the port. The secondaries look much better now, almost as good as the primaries.

Thanks for the idea.

Curtis

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The gasket are a crush once and they are done type of gasket, Some skate and just paint them.. they are cheap enough and if you don't plan on opening up the car again do it once and do it right.. How mad would you be if you had to tear it all down for the 20.00 of gaskets that you saved.. If you're going to be in it again then just paint them.

I just did my 300th cam weld the other day and ALL 300 cars received new gaskets. They are so cheap its silly not to do it.

Kirk J Doucette
NESHOC President

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You did rotate the motor to make sure the set of valves that you were working on at the time were closed. Correct?

Kirk J Doucette
NESHOC President

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Yes, the PCV and EGR contribute to the sticky and often crusty "stuff" found from the intake to the valve stems. On parts that you remove, in particular the butterflies, Berrymans or some other type of strong choke/carburetor cleaner or brake parts cleaner is effective to remove it, It will possibly take a few cans if you don't use a parts brush to get it all off.

As for the buildup on the valves, it is the opinion of a great many on the list that it is best removed but extra care taken to prevent it from falling into the combustion chamber. This can be tedious as one has to rotate the engine to put the valve being cleaned in the power (i.e. CLOSED) cycle then vacuum all the loosened particles and crust from the port area. A good light and patience will certainly be required to facilitate this operation.

As for the reuse of the upper intake gaskets, the term "maybe" would be applied here. Most of the time it is okay, however the amount of the grey material that flakes off will determine if you will get a sufficient seal. Some have sprayed the black paint on them and passes on spending a few dollars. I used the Permatex copper spray myself, it sealed fine but was messy when disassembled again and difficult to clean up the surfaces. I have opted to replace the last two times I got down that far.

Carter Fuji

'97 ES Whoosh

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I tend to agree most with Carter regarding the Intake Gaskets. "Maybe". I've found it proper at one time or another to use all 3 approaches to finish a camweld.
On a pristine 45,000 `96 which has spent its life in a heated garage - The gaskets are so well preserved that a wipe with a WD40 dampened towel and you can't tell them from new. The only way this gasket can hurt you is if you don't torque it right or you damage it - DOH!
I would NOT recommend spray painting a gasket in this fine of condition.
On a Northern car with 100K that has been mostly garaged but daily driven in the winter I would expect a 50/50 condition of the painted surfaces of the gaskets that are NOT in the compressed zones. The gasket will need to be checked over for corrosion but closer inspection will usually find that the narrow channels where the manifolds meet are very clean and even. If this is the case - a gasket like this CAN be wiped down good with a cleaner, carefully remove any chipped paint (This can come back to haunt you if you choose this route) and hit with spray paint. I like to let the paint dry tack free but still soft, this way the paint is still somewhat fluid to be able to crush into and span the wide spots. A painted gasket that is allowed to dry a little bit like this has a very desirable quality of Releasing from the manifolds THE NEXT time you take them apart - Now you don't need a scraper.
I've also worked on severe salt cars that had corrosion penetrating into the manifold compression ridges and changed the gaskets which were no longer serviceable.

Clean and Torqued Evenly is what matters here most IMHO. Last summer I was working on my 97TR and wanted to start it. Just handed over my new gaskets to one of those cars that had unusable upper gaskets so I had none for me on Sunday. No Biggie. I carefully cleaned the intake runners and assembled them WITHOUT the upper to lower MFD Gaskets. No glue, No nothing. Two precision, flat ground surfaces carefully torqued together.
Turned the key and you'll never guess - THE CAR STARTED!!!! <-------(Sarcasm) NSS.
Then it RAN!. THEN I DROVE IT! AND IT DIDN'T EXPLODE! Ran great and would have continued to run great for a long time IMHO. Gaskets are a band Aid for poor machining, I guess I had a well machined set of runners.

I guess the moral of this story is this. It's BEST to buy NEW, in almost ALL occasions. If you want to save a few bucks, chances are you will get away with it. And if by some chance you do bad and the car runs like Ass, No one is going to die here. Just go get some gaskets. A pinhole or two in the intake runners is not something that the average driver would ever ascertain.

Eric Lehmann
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