new 1/13/02, updated 1/16/03
Tim,
You've been pretty emphatic about the need to attend to the cams, even if the car still is under warranty. Over the holidays I was prepared to let ProTech have at it, but after speaking with Kevin there, I decided to hold off.
My situation is that the car has just over 40k and a zero deductible ESP that expires March 04 or 60k. Kevin certainly presented himself as a quite decent fellow, but what decided the matter for me is that ProTech offers no warranty on their work. And of course the welding likely would make any engine claim under ESP impossible. While ProTech's record demonstrates they do excellent work, obviously there's always some risk things might go awry.
I'll be an unhappy fellow if the engine roasts before the ESP is up, but I'd be especially glum if after welding, the engine fails for any reason and I was left without any recourse. As it is now, if the engine goes I at least have the small satisfaction of Ford paying the $7k or so the car is worth.
I decided to see what sort of risk of failure doing nothing might bring. I culled through your handily rearranged list of failures, and made a table of the reported mileage at time of failure. For the 86 observations, the average mileage is 75,413 and the mode is between 60-65k (9 instances). From the chart though it's clear that the failures start to bite hard as early as 45-50k.
I do about 5k annually with the car, so by ESP's end I will be somewhere in the 45-50k band (assuming the car's still running!). Admittedly there's also nonfinancial risk if the car fails, but everything of course involves tradeoffs. If the car makes it, there is no question I'll be at ProTech for weld work one month before the ESP expires.
If of interest, the table and chart are attached.
Keep up the good work!
Thank your for your hard work We did something like this before and cam up with an average of about 70k-75k so this is consistent. The guys who perform this service are all top notch mechanics or they would never even try the job.
Let me make these points:
I prevention is better than a fix. Some folks have had their cams welded after the noise started, Some folks never got the chance. You might be able to repair a failing cam but I could never trust it. Everyone is MUCH better off getting their cams welded before noise starts; if only because tow trucks are expensive and inconvenient. If a failing cam is repaired it must be welded in time after it has slipped, and after the splines are further damaged. That takes a lot of special tools and extra time for a inferior repair.
No one I know who does the welds guarantees them, or should. but they all take great care and have stood behind their work. They are patching a defective part, I would never warranty that.
Our recent experience has been FORD ESP is next to worthless for the cam issue. Say you have a failure under ESP. First they will tell you they need to verify for themselves. They have charged $1,300 for that.
Then they will tell you you need $8,000 in parts, but a Ford representative has to look at it first. Even if the car has zero miles they will tell you failure was caused by abuse and neglect. Carter was told he neglected the car and did not change the oil, so he produced a log book. Then they told him he did not have receipts for the oil, so he produced them. Then Ford told him he failed to write the VIN down on the receipts so Ford would not pay for the warranty repair.
By then your $1,300 in the hole have $8,000 in parts on order, need $4,000 in labor and you car is in 1000 pieces in a Ford dealership service bay. The SHO owners I know are very fussy about PM. Half of us use Mobil 1, 10% use Amsoil. I have lost all respect for Ford service based on how they mistreat SHO owners with failures under warranty..
Buford
| 1 | Brad Hogue | 89,490 |
| 2 | Brian Oravec | 55,000 |
| 3 | Carter Fuji | 94,000 |
| 4 | Arron McMeans | 84,464 |
| 5 | Dane Sigworth | 61,000 |
| 6 | Dave Bartlett | |
| 7 | David Ellison | 58,000 |
| 8 | Evan Chudnow | 61,000 |
| 9 | Don Harrold | 105,756 |
| 10 | Garth Schrock | 46,476 |
| 11 | David | 86,575 |
| 12 | Frank | 52,779 |
| 13 | Iva Hairson | 84,500 |
| 14 | George Gadebush | |
| 15 | Jim Merriman | |
| 16 | Ken Morreale | 66,000 |
| 17 | Kevin Wallick | 118,000 |
| 18 | Mike Kelly | 84,000 |
| 19 | Scott Lewis | |
| 20 | Misc Cam Failure | 83,000 |
| 21 | Number 11 This Month | 56,000 |
| 22 | Mike Miller | 51,308 |
| 23 | Milton Crawford | 59,500 |
| 24 | Pete Brown | 62,000 |
| 25 | Paul Kruger | 55,000 |
| 26 | Ray Finley | 31,223 |
| 27 | Scott Deischel | 85,000 |
| 28 | Scott Waters | 125,553 |
| 29 | Scott Wemstrom | 74,000 |
| 30 | Sutton | 41,000 |
| 31 | Tami Martin | |
| 32 | Scott Wilson | 54,000 |
| 33 | Scott Wilson | 41,000 |
| 34 | William & Jenny Ordean | 42,000 |
| 35 | Tim & Angie Giddens | 86,000 |
| 36 | Tim Cox | |
| 37 | Jeffrey Ward | 75,000 |
| 38 | Phil Bayle | 45,216 |
| 39 | Don Crawley | 93,000 |
| 40 | Tony Negro | 88,000 |
| 41 | Onequick | |
| 42 | Tim Austin | 90,800 |
| 43 | Matthew Gilbert | 62,000 |
| 44 | Bobby Tucker | 78,000 |
| 45 | David Ware | 75,000 |
| 46 | Anselm Clarke | |
| 47 | Jeff Johnson | 39,233 |
| 48 | Robert Farthing | 63,000 |
| 49 | Larry Langdon | 95,000 |
| 50 | Brian Kelly | 84,000 |
| 51 | Brian Sommers | 109,000 |
| 52 | Charles Hargrove | |
| 53 | Tom Wilson | 111,000 |
| 54 | Ray Hansen | 88,002 |
| 55 | William Ordean | 42,000 |
| 56 | Dave Shoaff | |
| 57 | Rodney Hardy | |
| 58 | Ronald Turner | 69,400 |
| 59 | Tan Tenekeci | 63,800 |
| 60 | Barry Broering | 67,909 |
| 61 | Tim Dove | 46,000 |
| 62 | Scott Doughtie | 91,645 |
| 63 | Phillip Smith | |
| 64 | Jeffrey Viele | 50,935 |
| 65 | Jason Weick | |
| 66 | Justin Zigon | |
| 67 | Scott | 100,047 |
| 68 | Kirk Radovich | 115,000 |
| 69 | Blake Glover | 86,000 |
| 70 | Matt | |
| 71 | Matt Moore | |
| 72 | Cedric E. Dunn | |
| 73 | Jason Mahoney | |
| 74 | Dustin Menard | 91,000 |
| 75 | Kim | 125,000 |
| 76 | Rick | 48,000 |
| 77 | Richard Kistner | 49,000 |
| 78 | Misc | 116,000 |
| 79 | Sue Green | |
| 80 | Reid Hensley | 87,000 |
| 81 | Christopher Ward | |
| 82 | Dealer Cooperation | |
| 83 | JR | 49,000 |
| 84 | Thomas Carey | 69,041 |
| 85 | Richard Dugger | |
| 86 | JCU | 100,000 |
| 87 | 2 More | |
| 88 | Kevin Reich | 99,154 |
| 89 | Kevin Bailey | |
| 90 | Dan Mariani | 56,000 |
| 91 | Rick Martin | 54,000 |
| 92 | Bill Damhoff | 80,000 |
| 93 | Chester F Nibert Jr. | 49,781 |
| 94 | James Shipley | |
| 95 | Michael Rzeppa | |
| 96 | Tracy Green | |
| 97 | Peter Gregory | 99,000 |
| 98 | Sprague Fleming | 39,544 |
| 99 | John Delmar | |
| 100 | Bryan Ohm | |
| 101 | Alison White | |
| 102 | Erin Tebbe | 100,000 |
| 103 | William Irish | |
| 104 | Kathleen and Michael Wells | 68,000 |
| 105 | Steven Glover | 122,000 |
| 106 | Judy DiDonato | 99,000 |
| 107 | Chris Gordon | 102,000 |
| 108 | William Davis | 62,000 |
| 109 | Scott Weldon | |
| 110 | Nicholas Reischman | 70,000 |
| 111 | Michael DiGrazia | 60,000 |
| 112 | Wallace Brashears | |
| 113 | Sara Zoller | |
| 114 | Scott Rose | 109,000 |
| 115 | Brad DeGroft | 49,000 |
| 116 | Nathan Mellinger | 133,358 |
| 117 | Jonathan Case | 72,000 |
| 118 | Buddy & Gloria Hewitt | 51,000 |
| 119 | Jackie | |
| 120 | Mark Hymer | 64,000 |
| 121 | Richard Wildman | |
| 122 | Michael Moses | |
| 123 | Nannette Dixon | 90,000 |
| <30,000 | 0 |
| =>30,000 & <35,000 | 1 |
| =>35,000 & <40,000 | 2 |
| =>40,000 & <45,000 | 4 |
| =>45,000 & <50,000 | 8 |
| =>50,000 & <55,000 | 6 |
| =>55,000 & <60,000 | 6 |
| =>60,000 & <65,000 | 9 |
| =>65,000 & <70,000 | 5 |
| =>70,000 & <75,000 | 3 |
| =>75,000 & <80,000 | 3 |
| =>80,000 & <85,000 | 6 |
| =>85,000 & <90,000 | 8 |
| =>90,000 & <95,000 | 6 |
| =>95,000 & <100,000 | 4 |
| =>100,000 & <105,000 | 4 |
| =>105,000 & <110,000 | 3 |
| =>110,000 & <115,000 | 1 |
| =>115,000 & <120,000 | 3 |
| =>120,000 & <125,000 | 1 |
| =>125,000 & <130,000 | 2 |
| =>130,000 & <135,000 | 1 |
| 86 |
hi,
I was reading this on the site tonight and saw something and wanted drop my 2 cents.
"No one I know who does the welds guarantees them, or should. but they all take great care and have stood behind their work. They are patching a defective part, I would never warranty that." quote from
Tim's response. When i had my cams welded at ray's performance in Detroit, they told me they would warranty the cam weld for 1 year. i don't know what the other shops are doing along these lines, but
I must say that when ray told me that, it gave me piece of mind. I would like to know if anyone else has had ray tell them this or if any other shop is offering the same thing.
Thanks
Chris Grau
97' black sho
99,780 miles and welded. (almost 10,000 miles since the welds)
Ray is very confident with the welder he uses. He is a master welder with over 10 years of experience. When I first showed the welder the cams, he knew exactly the perfect method of attacking the problem. He doesn't work directly for Ray. He owns a small welding shop that deals with many custom welding; from tool and die to bike racing frames.
It doesn't surprise me that Ray warranties all the work done in his shop. My SHO was his virgin trial and still running strong. I've taken my Explorer, Corolla, and Escort for him to service. So far no problems.
I highly recommend his service and work.
TKY